Uechi Ryu not reconized?
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Uechi Ryu not reconized?
I am a part of the Nova Scotian Karate team and i just went to nationals in March and one thing bugs me, they don't allow Uechi Ryu katas in the tournaments because they are not a very reconized style, can anyone explain why, also I want to tell everyone, try out for your provincial or state team, maybe we'll be reconized more that way.
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f.Channell
- Posts: 3541
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Valhalla
Eric,
I suppose the best way to find out is from the tournament director,
Then from the heads of the larger organization. Also post the question In Jay Salhanicks forum, he knows a lot of those people.
The other answer is to come on down to the Uechi Worlds June 5th in Plymouth. Bring down a Canadian Uechi team.
We'll recognize you!!!
Fred
I suppose the best way to find out is from the tournament director,
Then from the heads of the larger organization. Also post the question In Jay Salhanicks forum, he knows a lot of those people.
The other answer is to come on down to the Uechi Worlds June 5th in Plymouth. Bring down a Canadian Uechi team.
We'll recognize you!!!
Fred
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
www.hinghamkarate.com
Eric, I've had similar experiences attending tournaments during the 60's and 70's here in the midwest. I have overheard comments such as "what the hell was that" or "geez that looked weird" after someone finished viewing a Uechi kata performance." U-eee cheeryu?" "oh yea, that funny style where you walk like you're crippled".
Uechi kata tend to be a tad short for competition purposes in a mixed style venue. Many styles employ varied emphisis and speeds when executing kata--most Uechi people tend to be too fast with the same emphisis on every move ka thump - ka thump -ka thump- ka thump-ka thump until finished 30 seconds later.
We stand up too much,knees are too pinched and we do not have an abundance of LARGE "KARATE" MOTIONS of the generic type. If it is not mainly a Uechi/Okinawan style tournament I wouldn't bother. In mixed style tournaments I think you would fare better learning and performing a Goju,Shorin or Shotokan etc. kata.
Uechi kata tend to be a tad short for competition purposes in a mixed style venue. Many styles employ varied emphisis and speeds when executing kata--most Uechi people tend to be too fast with the same emphisis on every move ka thump - ka thump -ka thump- ka thump-ka thump until finished 30 seconds later.
We stand up too much,knees are too pinched and we do not have an abundance of LARGE "KARATE" MOTIONS of the generic type. If it is not mainly a Uechi/Okinawan style tournament I wouldn't bother. In mixed style tournaments I think you would fare better learning and performing a Goju,Shorin or Shotokan etc. kata.
Eric, I totally respect your heart for competing; I know it requires a lot from a person.
However, your story has made me very happy, because it reinforces my belief that Uechi Ryu is not a "show" style; not intended for sport or competition, but rather to help you survive a violent encounter of very brief duration. It is not "The Emperor's New Clothes", if you know that story.
You can take comfort in the knowledge that you have inadvertently brought a live firearm to a water-pistol competition and so no one knows what to do with that.
If you like the water-pistol games, you might want to learn a competition-based martial art in order to compete. There are many.
There is nothing wrong with just learning competition skills to participate in competition. Sports are a part of our culture.
On the other hand, you may wish to reflect upon what this experience has shown you about what martial arts are intended for, and how you value your ability to look after yourself and your loved ones, should the need arise.
Many tournament fighters were/are formidable self-defense fighters too, no question. But what is the real test?
Is it the flashy, dramatic show-Kata with lots of shouting, or the simple, almost invisible lethal/crippling techniques of the "lesser-known" styles?
Is the purpose of Kata impressing a "judge"?
Or is there something more in there, something waiting for you to discover in terms of your personal abilities as a martial artist; as a Uechi-Ka?
I'm no expert, and I asked myself all these questions when I got into training. Approaching Karate from the "sport" model imposes restrictions on the depth to which one can delve into it..that's been my limited experience.
Approaching it from a self-defense model may be less impressive, but "impressive" does not always equal "effective".
Once again, I totally respect you as a participant in the competition circuit; I know it's a whole different game with its own reality, pressures, and objectives. It requires the "correct" forms to conform to its requirements.
Uechi Ryu is obviously not one of them.
Personally, I couldn't be more happy about that.
NM
However, your story has made me very happy, because it reinforces my belief that Uechi Ryu is not a "show" style; not intended for sport or competition, but rather to help you survive a violent encounter of very brief duration. It is not "The Emperor's New Clothes", if you know that story.
You can take comfort in the knowledge that you have inadvertently brought a live firearm to a water-pistol competition and so no one knows what to do with that.
If you like the water-pistol games, you might want to learn a competition-based martial art in order to compete. There are many.
There is nothing wrong with just learning competition skills to participate in competition. Sports are a part of our culture.
On the other hand, you may wish to reflect upon what this experience has shown you about what martial arts are intended for, and how you value your ability to look after yourself and your loved ones, should the need arise.
Many tournament fighters were/are formidable self-defense fighters too, no question. But what is the real test?
Is it the flashy, dramatic show-Kata with lots of shouting, or the simple, almost invisible lethal/crippling techniques of the "lesser-known" styles?
Is the purpose of Kata impressing a "judge"?
Or is there something more in there, something waiting for you to discover in terms of your personal abilities as a martial artist; as a Uechi-Ka?
I'm no expert, and I asked myself all these questions when I got into training. Approaching Karate from the "sport" model imposes restrictions on the depth to which one can delve into it..that's been my limited experience.
Approaching it from a self-defense model may be less impressive, but "impressive" does not always equal "effective".
Once again, I totally respect you as a participant in the competition circuit; I know it's a whole different game with its own reality, pressures, and objectives. It requires the "correct" forms to conform to its requirements.
Uechi Ryu is obviously not one of them.
Personally, I couldn't be more happy about that.
NM
Not knowing your rank, I would suggest to do what I was taught, that is to combine 2 Uechi-Ryu Kata's together at open tournaments . I used to do Kanshiwa to Kanshu. You should practice doing this for a bit and you will see how different kata flow together. Also, ask your Instructor, if you are not the head inst at your school, to make sure that they agree wit this. I won or medaled a few times doing this.
"Thinking is a lost art"
Tournament
Hello Eric:
What tournament did you attend in March? There were a number of tournaments in Canada during that month. (Mas Oyama’s Memorial Cup March 13th / Kyokushin-Kai Kids Tournament March 6th / Alberta Open March 20th / along with a number of others.
Please give me additional information and I will look into this.
I find it very interesting that a tournament, especially if this is an “Open” tournament would not allow Uechi Ryu kata to be preformed. Normally the only time in the tournament world a specific kata or style is not allowed to partake or be preformed is when the tournament itself is a “Closed” tournament.
Take care
What tournament did you attend in March? There were a number of tournaments in Canada during that month. (Mas Oyama’s Memorial Cup March 13th / Kyokushin-Kai Kids Tournament March 6th / Alberta Open March 20th / along with a number of others.
Please give me additional information and I will look into this.
I find it very interesting that a tournament, especially if this is an “Open” tournament would not allow Uechi Ryu kata to be preformed. Normally the only time in the tournament world a specific kata or style is not allowed to partake or be preformed is when the tournament itself is a “Closed” tournament.
Take care
Jay Sal
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
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Gene DeMambro
- Posts: 1684
- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Weymouth, MA US of A
What group sanctioned the tournament? If it was sanctioned by a national or international group (say the WKF, for example), it's possible that group does not have any Uechi-Ryu members or rule makers on the competition committee.
Decisions are made by those who show up...and Uechi has been very lax in that regard.
Gene
Decisions are made by those who show up...and Uechi has been very lax in that regard.
Gene
Hi Eric
Glad to here your part of our NS team! I assure you all that Eric being on this team is a well "oiled" fighter.
Your question is a valid one and part of the answer (big part) is that Uechi practioners are fairly new to the NSKA and therefore there are no National class judges from our style... in time we will be judged. The NS team by the way was awesome this year at the National event ...was it not Eric
Don`t be discouraged it `s a very good organization and Uechi (at least in NS) is becoming a large part of it quickly and with a bang. I will point out that it has no "fly by nighters" and provides much support in areas such as insurance, seminars, tournaments etc..Also, you do get exposure to other styles and karateka of good charactor.
Hope to see you on the NS team at our National championship next April in Halifax.
Glad to here your part of our NS team! I assure you all that Eric being on this team is a well "oiled" fighter.
Your question is a valid one and part of the answer (big part) is that Uechi practioners are fairly new to the NSKA and therefore there are no National class judges from our style... in time we will be judged. The NS team by the way was awesome this year at the National event ...was it not Eric
Don`t be discouraged it `s a very good organization and Uechi (at least in NS) is becoming a large part of it quickly and with a bang. I will point out that it has no "fly by nighters" and provides much support in areas such as insurance, seminars, tournaments etc..Also, you do get exposure to other styles and karateka of good charactor.
Hope to see you on the NS team at our National championship next April in Halifax.
Léo
Hello All:
Thank you all for clarifying some points in this thread. Could someone please explain to me? What does “NSKA” stand for? Is it one of the following organizations (Northern Sport Karate Assoc. / National Sport Karate Assoc. / Nova Scotia Karate Assoc.?)
I understood when it was explained that the judgers were not familiar with the Uechi Ryu system of karate. However, it has been my experience that the judgers do not have to know or be familiar with any specific martial art system or style to effectively judge in tournament competition. The reason for this is.
A number of years ago back in the 70’s and 80’s when open karate tournaments were being brought to a new and higher level. Many of us that were involved in the promotion of tournament’s, along with the sanctioning bodies of the times. (Krane, Naska, PKA, NBL). We all came from different martial art backgrounds. We held a number of meetings to formulate a standard set of tournament rules, guidelines, and regulations for all to follow. One of the key concepts we all got out of the meetings were. One did not have to know the other guys martial art system in order to judge it in competition. We all realized that all our systems had the same root basics. We build and designed guidelines around those roots to follow. This way we took any and all specific style’s out of the equation. We designed a guide relating to martial art tournament forms for all judgers to follow.
By following this guide, as long as the judgers are trained to follow specific criteria, just like they do in the gymnastic competition in the Olympics. They can follow the same guide in the judging of form competition. They will have the knowledge and ability to judge and evaluate any martial art form, whether they know it or not. The main reason for this is, most all martial arts (Karate, Kung Fu, Gung Fu, TKD, TSD,) forms all have the same basic foundation when it comes to forms and kata.
By following this criteria any tournament judge can fairly evaluate any martial art form.
Outline for Judging Forms:
1-Execution of the technique (Is it being preformed strong & powerful)
2-Execution of the technique (Is it being preformed sloppy or lazy)
3-Hand positioning ( Fingers spread / weak hands)
4-Foot positioning ( Stances to wide or short and off balance)
5-Strength & Power of the technique
6-Accuracy of the technique
7-Concentration (Eyes, & Focus)
8-Balance - Foot positioning, good solid stance, what ever stance it is.
9-Realism of the technique. Does the technique look effective?
10-Difficulty level of the technique.
11-Stability in the technique
12-Is the competitor wearing a clean uniform
13-Respect - Does the competitor present themselves in a professional manner when introduced.
These are the general guidelines that were designed. Over the years some have been modified and expanded upon. To cover new and innovative martial art forms. For example. Many tournament forms today are not traditional forms from any martial art system. Many competitors of today design and choreograph their own forms strictly for tournament compition. Many have included music, weapons, fancy gymnastic techniques, such as flips, kips, cartwheels, and back jump flips. Whether one aggress with this or not is not in question at this time. The main point is. Most tournaments have special forms divisions just for this type of kata. Again there is no way any judge could know how to score them, unless they have a special guide line to follow.
All tournament rules, regulations, and guidelines are a work in process. They will change and be modified as the growing and expanding martial art world keeps growing and advancing.
Thank you.
Thank you all for clarifying some points in this thread. Could someone please explain to me? What does “NSKA” stand for? Is it one of the following organizations (Northern Sport Karate Assoc. / National Sport Karate Assoc. / Nova Scotia Karate Assoc.?)
I understood when it was explained that the judgers were not familiar with the Uechi Ryu system of karate. However, it has been my experience that the judgers do not have to know or be familiar with any specific martial art system or style to effectively judge in tournament competition. The reason for this is.
A number of years ago back in the 70’s and 80’s when open karate tournaments were being brought to a new and higher level. Many of us that were involved in the promotion of tournament’s, along with the sanctioning bodies of the times. (Krane, Naska, PKA, NBL). We all came from different martial art backgrounds. We held a number of meetings to formulate a standard set of tournament rules, guidelines, and regulations for all to follow. One of the key concepts we all got out of the meetings were. One did not have to know the other guys martial art system in order to judge it in competition. We all realized that all our systems had the same root basics. We build and designed guidelines around those roots to follow. This way we took any and all specific style’s out of the equation. We designed a guide relating to martial art tournament forms for all judgers to follow.
By following this guide, as long as the judgers are trained to follow specific criteria, just like they do in the gymnastic competition in the Olympics. They can follow the same guide in the judging of form competition. They will have the knowledge and ability to judge and evaluate any martial art form, whether they know it or not. The main reason for this is, most all martial arts (Karate, Kung Fu, Gung Fu, TKD, TSD,) forms all have the same basic foundation when it comes to forms and kata.
By following this criteria any tournament judge can fairly evaluate any martial art form.
Outline for Judging Forms:
1-Execution of the technique (Is it being preformed strong & powerful)
2-Execution of the technique (Is it being preformed sloppy or lazy)
3-Hand positioning ( Fingers spread / weak hands)
4-Foot positioning ( Stances to wide or short and off balance)
5-Strength & Power of the technique
6-Accuracy of the technique
7-Concentration (Eyes, & Focus)
8-Balance - Foot positioning, good solid stance, what ever stance it is.
9-Realism of the technique. Does the technique look effective?
10-Difficulty level of the technique.
11-Stability in the technique
12-Is the competitor wearing a clean uniform
13-Respect - Does the competitor present themselves in a professional manner when introduced.
These are the general guidelines that were designed. Over the years some have been modified and expanded upon. To cover new and innovative martial art forms. For example. Many tournament forms today are not traditional forms from any martial art system. Many competitors of today design and choreograph their own forms strictly for tournament compition. Many have included music, weapons, fancy gymnastic techniques, such as flips, kips, cartwheels, and back jump flips. Whether one aggress with this or not is not in question at this time. The main point is. Most tournaments have special forms divisions just for this type of kata. Again there is no way any judge could know how to score them, unless they have a special guide line to follow.
All tournament rules, regulations, and guidelines are a work in process. They will change and be modified as the growing and expanding martial art world keeps growing and advancing.
Thank you.
Jay Sal
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
Hello Jay
First, I agree in full with your post regarding tournament.
I will give you the best response I can with what limited information I have at this time.
"NSKA" stands for Nova Scotian Karate Association. It is recognized by Sport Nova Scotia which is a government sponsered agency paid for by the tax payers (lets not go there). All refferees /judges must be certified by the Canadian National Coaching program level 1, 2 etc.. ( these are Nationally recognized course and they are excellent)Sport specific certification also applies starting at level 2. In time I do forsee a certification requirement to teach the public in any sport/art in Nova Scotia in public buildings to begin with and our "big brother" may expand his reach in future. Some schools, public centers and Church halls already ask for govenment sponsered certification in our area in order to allow access . A recent demo at a local Mall could not have taken place without proof of sponsership from the NSKA.
NSKA tournaments are open to member clubs only and the membership is growing, Uechi is now a mayor part of the Nova Scotia organization but not significant Nationally (however, they provide excellent fighters). Our club has actually only been a member since December and thus far, very pleased. They do not effect the day to day operation of individual dojo and the small membership fee ($20 per student annually) provides insurance both medical/dental and liabilty for tournament and in dojo. Tournaments are run by the association which is a bonus IMHO, excellent training seminars for fighters as well as refs. are provided as well throughout the year.
As for what kata are allowed, and how they are judged? I can only comment that there are restrictions and although I do not agree with what is current, for now it must be so.
I have been appointed on the executive committee very recently and when I get up to speed on details I will comment with more detailed information if anyone wishes.
First, I agree in full with your post regarding tournament.
I will give you the best response I can with what limited information I have at this time.
"NSKA" stands for Nova Scotian Karate Association. It is recognized by Sport Nova Scotia which is a government sponsered agency paid for by the tax payers (lets not go there). All refferees /judges must be certified by the Canadian National Coaching program level 1, 2 etc.. ( these are Nationally recognized course and they are excellent)Sport specific certification also applies starting at level 2. In time I do forsee a certification requirement to teach the public in any sport/art in Nova Scotia in public buildings to begin with and our "big brother" may expand his reach in future. Some schools, public centers and Church halls already ask for govenment sponsered certification in our area in order to allow access . A recent demo at a local Mall could not have taken place without proof of sponsership from the NSKA.
NSKA tournaments are open to member clubs only and the membership is growing, Uechi is now a mayor part of the Nova Scotia organization but not significant Nationally (however, they provide excellent fighters). Our club has actually only been a member since December and thus far, very pleased. They do not effect the day to day operation of individual dojo and the small membership fee ($20 per student annually) provides insurance both medical/dental and liabilty for tournament and in dojo. Tournaments are run by the association which is a bonus IMHO, excellent training seminars for fighters as well as refs. are provided as well throughout the year.
As for what kata are allowed, and how they are judged? I can only comment that there are restrictions and although I do not agree with what is current, for now it must be so.
I have been appointed on the executive committee very recently and when I get up to speed on details I will comment with more detailed information if anyone wishes.
Léo
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Stephen M Perry
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