I touched on this idea of Alpha Females and and how men perceive them on Bill's Forum. I felt like it was getting off the subject, so I decided to post the article here that mentioned it and get your response.
http://www.ewomensnews.org/archives/200 ... r-problem/
Vicki
Are men scared of a strong woman?
Moderator: Available
Are men scared of a strong woman?
Last edited by chef on Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Cry in the dojo, laugh in the battlefield"
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Stryke
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jorvik
Well I have met alpha females and alpha males 
...basically the ones that I know are just a waste of space. the alpha females are just as bad as the alpha males. Some of the article is wrong, for a start they are not more intelligent they are usually more ambitious and more focused on getting on..and they usually get on beyond their intelligence, and that is a very bad thing 
I don't really like the terminology "alpha"it makes them sound superior.I think that they are inferior
...basically the ones that I know are just a waste of space. the alpha females are just as bad as the alpha males. Some of the article is wrong, for a start they are not more intelligent they are usually more ambitious and more focused on getting on..and they usually get on beyond their intelligence, and that is a very bad thing I don't really like the terminology "alpha"it makes them sound superior.I think that they are inferior
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
I dunno.
Could be that many extrememly successful women are basically uncompromising and long-term relationships take lots of compromise.
Could be that the quiet whispers of mother culture still tell men that they must make more than a woman, must be the provider (not the co-provider) and so a woman of wealth and means upsets what some men perceive to be their role in the world.
And could be a bunch of hogwash. Lots of rich and successful women are married. Notice how many successful American women marry European men? Don't know what's going on there either.
The roles of men and women today are in a real state of flux. The process of change is very uncomfortable - I don't think there's light yet at the end of the tunnel. We've never had as many women who do not need their family or a husband to support themselves - so we don't know how it is going to turn out.
My guess is that many successful women devote time to career and put off marriage and many successful men get married earlier anyway because that is the norm. So my question will be more around the divorce rates of successful men and successful women. Is your marriage more likely to stay intact if you are both very successful or if one is more successful in a career than the other? Lots of things are at play.
Could be that many extrememly successful women are basically uncompromising and long-term relationships take lots of compromise.
Could be that the quiet whispers of mother culture still tell men that they must make more than a woman, must be the provider (not the co-provider) and so a woman of wealth and means upsets what some men perceive to be their role in the world.
And could be a bunch of hogwash. Lots of rich and successful women are married. Notice how many successful American women marry European men? Don't know what's going on there either.
The roles of men and women today are in a real state of flux. The process of change is very uncomfortable - I don't think there's light yet at the end of the tunnel. We've never had as many women who do not need their family or a husband to support themselves - so we don't know how it is going to turn out.
My guess is that many successful women devote time to career and put off marriage and many successful men get married earlier anyway because that is the norm. So my question will be more around the divorce rates of successful men and successful women. Is your marriage more likely to stay intact if you are both very successful or if one is more successful in a career than the other? Lots of things are at play.
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jorvik
I dunno either
Dana I guess it is how you measure success, I really don't have a problem with folks earning more than me, even women.
in fact my wife does
...and she loves her job ( whereas I hate mine 
)..so as a partnership we decided on what suited us....and used our own definition of success .....it's like kata ( I guess )........to us it means everything but to a lot of folks it means nothing 
the "Alpha" folks that I know( of either gender )are immoral,basic,stupid folks....ok they have earned a lot of buck$$$dollars, but they will never turn into somebody that I want to emulate or respect.guess a lot is down to personal experience..and I'm only saying mine....................Ihave a very moral perspective on most things ( and not dogmatic).basically it is down to respect for one and other, irrespective of race ,religion,sexuality....in fact I really don't understand how they are issues
...and your Alpha folks tend to use those kinda things as ammo .or in fact anything that will get them "on"...and always remember "The female is more deadly than the male" 
Dana I guess it is how you measure success, I really don't have a problem with folks earning more than me, even women.
in fact my wife does
...and she loves her job ( whereas I hate mine )..so as a partnership we decided on what suited us....and used our own definition of success .....it's like kata ( I guess )........to us it means everything but to a lot of folks it means nothing the "Alpha" folks that I know( of either gender )are immoral,basic,stupid folks....ok they have earned a lot of buck$$$dollars, but they will never turn into somebody that I want to emulate or respect.guess a lot is down to personal experience..and I'm only saying mine....................Ihave a very moral perspective on most things ( and not dogmatic).basically it is down to respect for one and other, irrespective of race ,religion,sexuality....in fact I really don't understand how they are issues
...and your Alpha folks tend to use those kinda things as ammo .or in fact anything that will get them "on"...and always remember "The female is more deadly than the male" 
How I knew it was love....
We had only been dating for a few weeks when Kami came flouncing down the stairs to my basement apartment in a torn-off sweatshirt (remember Flashdance?).
She smiled and bit her lower lip with her hands behind her back. She was wiggling side to side with supressed excitment and she gave me a wicked little grin and sai, "Put your coffee cup away." I reached up to put it on the book shelf, turning half away from her, stretching high and she punched me so hard in the kidney that I went down to my knees groaning. I pissed blood, later.
She looked down, still with the wicked smile, still adorable and said, "Remember when you said that really mean thing yesterday and I said I'd get you back? I just did." She then turned and flounced out.
That's when I knew that I had found a woman who would and could stand up to me, would never let me dominate or push her around and would tell me when I was wrong. She was strong and smart and tough and valued herself enough to be a partner. Deep down, I'd been searching for a partner. Not a wife, not someone to tell me I was perfect. I've never in my life wanted or even liked the idea of unconditional love- I wanted love that I had to prove myself worthy of every day.
That was Kami.
I guess you could say I have a weakness for strong women. I honestly don't think that what I call love I could feel for a weak one.
She smiled and bit her lower lip with her hands behind her back. She was wiggling side to side with supressed excitment and she gave me a wicked little grin and sai, "Put your coffee cup away." I reached up to put it on the book shelf, turning half away from her, stretching high and she punched me so hard in the kidney that I went down to my knees groaning. I pissed blood, later.
She looked down, still with the wicked smile, still adorable and said, "Remember when you said that really mean thing yesterday and I said I'd get you back? I just did." She then turned and flounced out.
That's when I knew that I had found a woman who would and could stand up to me, would never let me dominate or push her around and would tell me when I was wrong. She was strong and smart and tough and valued herself enough to be a partner. Deep down, I'd been searching for a partner. Not a wife, not someone to tell me I was perfect. I've never in my life wanted or even liked the idea of unconditional love- I wanted love that I had to prove myself worthy of every day.
That was Kami.
I guess you could say I have a weakness for strong women. I honestly don't think that what I call love I could feel for a weak one.
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fivedragons
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My girlfriend's cool too. Once, while chilling with her friends and some unknown person who repeatedly made reference to her weight, (she is a very healthy teutonic amazon warrior queen type) she bloodied his nose while they were both seated on the same couch.
When her ex husband a-hole shoved her during pregnancy, she straight broke his nose.
Now she's started Isshin-ryu. If they only knew!
Her maiden name is Krieger, which is german for warrior.
Christ, I hope I never piss her off.
At least she thinks I'm some kind of karate badass dude. -
f.Channell
- Posts: 3541
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- Location: Valhalla
If this is an alpha female I'm scared yes.
Always think of her this time of year.
Always think of her this time of year.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
www.hinghamkarate.com
It's hard to say what the cause of this is, if it's really a significant effect. The fact that they're using IQ as one of the variables makes me a bit skeptical. That said, it makes sense that it would be a combination of factors.
Yes, men have historically been expected to be in a position of superiority to their wives, so men who are locked into that mode of thinking will not want to marry women more succesful than them.
Conversely, women have historically been most attracted to men of higher social status (money, power). If these women are only interested in men who are more succesful than them, that shrinks the dating pool considerably.
It's also possible that it's a byproduct of having unusual personalities. Generally speaking, it makes sense to me that the more unusual your personality is, the less likely you are to be married. Now it seems entirely possible that the personality that makes a women materially succesful is rarer thatn the personality that makes a man materially succesful. This could be biological, or it could be due to women having more cultural hurdles to overcome.
Or maybe they simply don't have as much desire to be married. Without the need for additional financial security perhaps there's somewhat less incentive, so they aren't as likely to settle for relationships they might otherwise.
It could be some combination of all these things, or none. The article doesn't really seem to have an answer either.
Yes, men have historically been expected to be in a position of superiority to their wives, so men who are locked into that mode of thinking will not want to marry women more succesful than them.
Conversely, women have historically been most attracted to men of higher social status (money, power). If these women are only interested in men who are more succesful than them, that shrinks the dating pool considerably.
It's also possible that it's a byproduct of having unusual personalities. Generally speaking, it makes sense to me that the more unusual your personality is, the less likely you are to be married. Now it seems entirely possible that the personality that makes a women materially succesful is rarer thatn the personality that makes a man materially succesful. This could be biological, or it could be due to women having more cultural hurdles to overcome.
Or maybe they simply don't have as much desire to be married. Without the need for additional financial security perhaps there's somewhat less incentive, so they aren't as likely to settle for relationships they might otherwise.
It could be some combination of all these things, or none. The article doesn't really seem to have an answer either.
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Bill Glasheen
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- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I found this article to be interesting and hogwash at the same time.
Having grown up with 6 highly intelligent, stunningly beautiful sisters, I've noted how the marriage thing just is less likely to happen. Out of 6 sisters, only 4 got married. From them I have only a nephew and a niece. The others just got involved with their careers.
You can't do it all. The feminist mantra of the 1960s is bullcrap. NOBODY can do it all - male or female. We need to make choices in life, and set priorities. We need division of labor and partnering to be successful. And you can't have an indian tribe with all chiefs.
Meanwhile, yours truly always measured his girlfriends by the nearly impossible standard of his sisters. I would never bring a bimbo home to the family; the catty sisters would eat her alive. And frankly she would wither in their presence. I was always attracted to the highly athletic and the highly intelligent.
What I found is that smart women are picky. And there is such a thing in this world as being too picky. If we knew before marriage what we would discover 10 years after marriage, probably most people would never exchange vows. There's a certain amount of ignorant bliss that goes with a couple having faith in what they vow together. If they only knew how tough it would be... And smart women really do!
Here's one to consider... Taking risk is more often a testosterone-associated trait. Throwing your lot in with someone involves a good deal of risk, and men are more likely to take risk. Smart women may know too much. That combined with a reluctance to pair up with someone whom they see as less than ideal may make such women "too picky."
There were more than a few ultra-highly-intelligent women I actively pursued in my day. I have wonderful memories, and interestingly enough have maintained friendships. (I find that almost universally impossible with most ex's) However maybe they were too smart to marry me.
I did however manage to snag one alpha female. She's probably one of the least domestic women I've ever been with. She has other redeeming traits.
Interestingly enough, statistically speaking alpha females generally only have one child. My wife was the exception. Me? I've never been the rate-limiting step.
An interesting and sad anecdote... A good friend who was an MD, PhD, MPH and co-founder of a successful company made her name and fortune. She was smart, sexy, capable, etc., etc. But she had things to do, places to go, people to meet, and miles to go....
Tick, tick, tick...
By the time she got around to selling her company and doing the mom thing, nature had other ideas. Those eggs only last so long. It was the one goal in her life that she failed to achieve on time. And it wasn't for a lack of desire.
But she is happily married, and a wonderful friend of mine.
- Bill
This doesn't make any sense to me. Smart women know they can't raise children well on their own, as do smart men. And I wouldn't necessarily call unprotected infidelity the act of a smart person. These are the bimbos you see on Jerry Springer.Another theory is that Alpha females are being avoided because men are biologically wired to avoid successful partners because of the threat of infidelity, one that could leave them bringing up a child who is not their own.
Having grown up with 6 highly intelligent, stunningly beautiful sisters, I've noted how the marriage thing just is less likely to happen. Out of 6 sisters, only 4 got married. From them I have only a nephew and a niece. The others just got involved with their careers.
You can't do it all. The feminist mantra of the 1960s is bullcrap. NOBODY can do it all - male or female. We need to make choices in life, and set priorities. We need division of labor and partnering to be successful. And you can't have an indian tribe with all chiefs.
Meanwhile, yours truly always measured his girlfriends by the nearly impossible standard of his sisters. I would never bring a bimbo home to the family; the catty sisters would eat her alive. And frankly she would wither in their presence. I was always attracted to the highly athletic and the highly intelligent.
What I found is that smart women are picky. And there is such a thing in this world as being too picky. If we knew before marriage what we would discover 10 years after marriage, probably most people would never exchange vows. There's a certain amount of ignorant bliss that goes with a couple having faith in what they vow together. If they only knew how tough it would be... And smart women really do!
Here's one to consider... Taking risk is more often a testosterone-associated trait. Throwing your lot in with someone involves a good deal of risk, and men are more likely to take risk. Smart women may know too much. That combined with a reluctance to pair up with someone whom they see as less than ideal may make such women "too picky."
There were more than a few ultra-highly-intelligent women I actively pursued in my day. I have wonderful memories, and interestingly enough have maintained friendships. (I find that almost universally impossible with most ex's) However maybe they were too smart to marry me.
I did however manage to snag one alpha female.
She's probably one of the least domestic women I've ever been with. She has other redeeming traits.Interestingly enough, statistically speaking alpha females generally only have one child. My wife was the exception. Me? I've never been the rate-limiting step.
An interesting and sad anecdote... A good friend who was an MD, PhD, MPH and co-founder of a successful company made her name and fortune. She was smart, sexy, capable, etc., etc. But she had things to do, places to go, people to meet, and miles to go....
Tick, tick, tick...
By the time she got around to selling her company and doing the mom thing, nature had other ideas. Those eggs only last so long.
It was the one goal in her life that she failed to achieve on time. And it wasn't for a lack of desire.But she is happily married, and a wonderful friend of mine.
- Bill
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f.Channell
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One alpha female who men seem to be afraid of is Martha Stewart.
I know if she stepped in my veggie garden I'd be intimidated...
But seriously what did that woman do that any one else wouldn't do?
I know I slept sounder at night knowing she was locked up. What a waste of taxpayer money.
F.
I know if she stepped in my veggie garden I'd be intimidated...
But seriously what did that woman do that any one else wouldn't do?
I know I slept sounder at night knowing she was locked up. What a waste of taxpayer money.
F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
www.hinghamkarate.com
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Akil Todd Harvey
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violence, I guess is bad, unless perpetrated by a woman
I was thinking about Martha Stewart and I was imagining myself as her stock broker............
She says, "I will buy whatever you recommend, but if the stock ever goes down, I will f***in' kill you, have a nice day....."
we all know that stocks go up and never down, right? (some fools have some real interesting understanding about how the world works).
so the stock is about to go down and the broker feverishly calls her to warn her with illegal inside information (he doesn’t want this crazed skank chasing him for the rest of his life)...........
Interestingly, she tries to blame him for giving her the information in the first place although I can almost guarantee it was she who insisted that she get any and all inside (illegal info), “Or else” (implied threats)
………I am not sure that angry women are any better than angry men, they are just angry……and blaming men for daring not to be enthralled with their self-serving choices is just a choice that men have to make…….
Women’s job it seems, is to blame men for not wanting them enough on days that they are not blaming men for wanting them too much……….
I was thinking about Martha Stewart and I was imagining myself as her stock broker............
She says, "I will buy whatever you recommend, but if the stock ever goes down, I will f***in' kill you, have a nice day....."
we all know that stocks go up and never down, right? (some fools have some real interesting understanding about how the world works).
so the stock is about to go down and the broker feverishly calls her to warn her with illegal inside information (he doesn’t want this crazed skank chasing him for the rest of his life)...........
Interestingly, she tries to blame him for giving her the information in the first place although I can almost guarantee it was she who insisted that she get any and all inside (illegal info), “Or else” (implied threats)
………I am not sure that angry women are any better than angry men, they are just angry……and blaming men for daring not to be enthralled with their self-serving choices is just a choice that men have to make…….
Women’s job it seems, is to blame men for not wanting them enough on days that they are not blaming men for wanting them too much……….
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Right...
All women are the same. We all think alike. In fact, any perceived differences between us are an illusion. We all speak telepathically to one another and secretly discuss how we are controlling the world and why all beings with two X chromosomes will always be superior to those hapless humans with just one X and one Y.
Indeed.
hmph.
All women are the same. We all think alike. In fact, any perceived differences between us are an illusion. We all speak telepathically to one another and secretly discuss how we are controlling the world and why all beings with two X chromosomes will always be superior to those hapless humans with just one X and one Y.
Indeed.
hmph.
Did you show compassion today?
