Self-defense laws on the rise

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Bill Glasheen
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Self-defense laws on the rise

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Several years back, there was an attempt by some to discourage tourism in Forida when it passed a self-defense law negating the traditional "duty to retreat" mindset. While there are still many states that highly discourage the use of deadly force - even in the most extreme circumstances - there's an interesting trend going on now in the state legislatures. This article talks a bit about it.

By the way, I find the "test case" of the Florida law cited at the end of this article to be a stretch at best. I've never been a fan of outfits that make a living out of impounding cars, and am paticularly bothered by those who feel a need to use deadly force when doing so. I find it difficult to believe a jury would buy that a man trying to get his own car back - even illegally - would be attempting to run someone over to accomplish the feat. But I guess if you're being tried for murder, you'll grasp at whatever straws you can.

Bill
States allow deadly self-defense

By Richard Willing, USA TODAY

A year after Florida became the first state to allow citizens to use deadly force against muggers, carjackers and other attackers, the idea is spreading. South Dakota has enacted a similar law, Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels plans to sign such a measure today, and 15 other states are considering such proposals.

Dubbed "Stand Your Ground" bills by supporters such as the National Rifle Association, the measures generally grant immunity from prosecution and lawsuits to those who use deadly force to combat any unlawful entry or attack. Several states allow people to use deadly force in their homes against intruders; the new measures represent an expansion of self-defense rights to crimes committed in public.

The NRA and other supporters say the bills are needed in many states that require people under attack in public places to withdraw from the situation, rather than retaliate, unless they can show their lives are in danger. "For someone attacked by criminals to be victimized a second time by a second-guessing legal system is wrong," the NRA's Wayne LaPierre says.

Critics, including the Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence, say the bills encourage vigilantism and would make it more likely that confrontations would turn deadly. Zach Ragbourn of the Brady group says the proposals "are more accurately called 'Shoot First' laws. They allow a person who just feels something bad is going to happen to open fire in public."

The idea that people should use deadly force only to defend their lives is rooted in English common law, author Richard Maxwell Brown says in No Duty To Retreat: Violence and Values in American History and Society. Another common law principle, the "duty to retreat," requires people to avoid potentially deadly confrontations. The principles apply in most states. The duty to retreat generally doesn't apply in a person's home.

LaPierre says the NRA is targeting 29 duty-to-retreat states where people can be prosecuted, sued or both if they don't retreat from criminal attacks.

Ragbourn says the proposals aim to "fix a system that isn't broken. People aren't being thrown into jail for legitimate self-defense. There's no crisis here."

Florida's law could be facing its first test. Donald Montanez, owner of a Tampa towing company, is charged with murder in the shooting of a man whose car was impounded. Prosecutors say Montanez fired as the man drove off without paying a fee. Montanez's attorney, Roger Rigau, says the new law should protect Montanez, who feared being hit by the driver.
MikeK
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Post by MikeK »

Sounds like murder to me.
I was dreaming of the past...
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

True story...

Decades ago, my parents' station wagon was towed. My parents went to where the police told them the car was towed. Nobody responded to their knocking on the door of the closed business, but the auto was in an unlocked area in the front. So my mom - about 60 years old at the time - got in the car to drive it home.

Suddenly from nowhere a man shows up with a gun. He points the gun at my mom's head, and demands payment for the car from my dad. The man continued angrily to argue with my dad while pointing the gun at my mom's head.

Fortunately for everyone, cooler heads prevailed and my parents escaped unharmed.

So... I don't have "warm and fuzzy" feelings about the Florida scenario described above. I wouldn't call it a proper application of a self-defense law. But then I wasn't there, so who knows?

- Bill
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

Yep, sounds like murder to me.

Virginia common and case law supports the stand your ground position, but it is still best to retreat if you can. An attempt to codify the common law in VA did not make it out of the sub committee this year. Perhaps next year.

The new laws being written in other states shield the person defending him/herself from civil actions if the perp encountered lethal force while in the commission of a crime.

Rich
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Post by RACastanet »

For the second year in a row Kansas Gov is turning back the will of the people. This veto might get over ridden.

TOPEKA — Gov. Kathleen Sebelius vetoed a bill today that would allow Kansans to carry concealed weapons, setting up a face-off with lawmakers already vowing to attempt to overrule her.

Wisconson voters had cancealed carry passed but vetoed earlier this year. That over ride missed by one vote!

Nebraska is set to vote on it soon.

Shall issue laws are slowly but surely becoming the law of the land jast as the SD trend is escalating.

Rich
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sgoss1
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Post by sgoss1 »

Has anyone failed to notice the implications here? That Bill comes from stock that represents hopeless scofflaws? Criminals to the exteme?!?
C'mon Bill come clean....tell us about the horse thieves....

:twisted: Steve
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

I plead the fifth, Steve! 8)

- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Rich

Does the Kansas law allow the carrying of concealed weapons, or just firearms? Often the press doesn't get that right.

Thanks.

Bill
MikeK
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Post by MikeK »

sgoss1 wrote:Has anyone failed to notice the implications here? That Bill comes from stock that represents hopeless scofflaws? Criminals to the exteme?!?
C'mon Bill come clean....tell us about the horse thieves....

:twisted: Steve
You could have summed it up by just saying he's Irish. :lol:
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Post by RACastanet »

Good news. Kansas has overidden the Gov's veto and the shall issue legislation has passed! It will become effective Jan 1, 2007. This brings the # of shall issue states to 39. It is possible they will honor the VA CHP which will bring the scope of VA's CHP to 21 states.

From the wording I see on the internet Kansas will issue weapons permits.

Delaware is also close to shall issue legislation. The Governor will veto but like Kansas it could be over ridden. The vote will occur this month.

Rich
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

Good question...

What defines a 'weapon' _
Van
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Post by RACastanet »

This just in... More good news!

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Gov. Mitch Daniels signed into law legislation endorsing Indiana residents' right to use deadly force against intruders, a change that prevents courts from ruling that individuals should flee first before using a gun.


Which state will be next?

What is a weapon? This seems to be defined by the criminal code of individual states. For instance, in Virginia a knife with a blade length under 3" is considered a tool. In some states the definition is 4". VA also specifically lists flails, throwing stars, double edged blades (dirk)... as weapons that cannot be concealed.

There is also the 'object that can be used to cause grievous bodily injury' statement. However, as Bill likes to point out a baseball bat fits that description but is quite legal in the US. However, I suspect if you wore a long overcoat to conceal a bat and walked into a bank you might run afoul of the law. Just keep that bat in plain view!

For MA you will need to do some homework.

Rich
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

I think what's critical here is understanding whether or not the Kansas law is a concealed WEAPON permit or just a concealed FIREARM permit. Virginia law only allows for concealed firearm with my permit, whereas I believe Florida's permit allows for concealment of an array of weapons.

What's the deal in Kansas, Rich?

- Bill
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Post by RACastanet »

From the wording I see on the internet Kansas will issue weapons permits.

I will follow the progress and hopefully can ge the official wording.

Rich
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Post by RACastanet »

More good news on the self defense front. This is becoming the trend in most states:

Self-Defense Bill Gets Final Legislative Approval

Georgians would be free to defend themselves against muggers, carjackers and other attackers without fear of being prosecuted or sued under a National Rifle Association-backed bill that won final legislative approval March 24.


For more:

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/s ... force.html

Rich
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