Dan Kumite

[Uechi Dude]

What benefits do you get performing Dan Kumite ?
Strength, speed, stamina, maybe a deeper understanding of forms ?

[Norm Abrahamson]

Off the top of my head, I would include as benefits from Dan Kumite:

1. Better understanding of distance;
2. Practicing circular rather than linear movement;
3. Take downs and transition from standing to the ground;
4. Countering the counter;
5. Changing attacking levels.

There are more, but these came to me quickly.

Sincerely,

Norm Abrahamson

[Bill Glasheen]

What benefits do you get performing Dan Kumite ?

I'm going to start by giving you what may appear to be a flip answer. However it is so very true, no matter what perspective you come from on the subject.

Bottom line - you get out of it what you put into it.

Dan Kumite isn't fighting per se. Dan Kumite isn't self-defense per se. Rather it is a tool in our tookit. What it does is give us a fixed format where we can experiment with exploring the principles of our system. Some like to argue about the format, but that's largely because of the way they practice it and/or see the way most practice it. A good example is the whole "backing up" firestorm. Yes, white belts do a one-dimentional Dan Kumite where people step forwards or backwards. That ain't the way we do it in my dojo. From day 1 I instead teach people how to manage and in many cases get off the lines of force.

There are so, so many things we need to work on to develop proficiency in this style while working with a partner. The footwork alone is a tough one for most people in the system - even black belts. This is a good vehicle to start working on it. Distance is another one, as was suggested above. Most people are way, way too far away from each other - even when accounting for the tit-for-tat nature of the exercise. But that can be worked on. Another good example is the idea of "decision points" in a sequence of events. Both Kyu and Dan Kumite have myriad hidden gems within the exercise that the user doesn't consummate in the fixed format. Why? Because we aren't given an endless supply of lackeys to kill or beat up on. But every single movement can be approached as if THIS was the one that took the person out. But you have to know it's there first.

Flow is another thing most don't have in the system, but can be worked on. I take pieces and parts of Dan kumite all the time and play "Freeze!" with it. What I show is how people when moving (either on "offense" or "defense") aren't loaded for their next move. Yes, you can practice this with a partner in this fixed format. It's kind of like teaching someone when playing chess how to take EVERY move (even when getting out of check) as an opportunity to attack or set up an attack. There are no blocks; there are only opportunities to put a hurt on your partner.

It's one of many tools in the tool box. It's a valuable one, but don't try to build a house with it any more than you'd try with any other tool in your kit.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

In our force on force experiments, we categorized three distinct conceptual patterns of movement as secondary evasion lines. Circling, Switchbacks, and Jamming.

- Suarez


Van

This is exactly the kinds of morsels of information I love to get, and bring into prearranged fighting work (a.k.a. yakusoku kumite).

In cases where only linear movement is possible (narrow hallways, stairs, etc.), remember that backing up will invariably land you on the ground with a bad guy on top of you.

- Suarez


And these are exactly the kinds of lessons I harp on when trying to "inspire" (cajole, nag, bitch at, etc.) my students to work on their movement in these drills.

The problem - if one exists - is no different (IMO) than the "problem" with teaching kata. There are legions of kata detractors out there who will point to their steroid-injected MMA ring hero and say "See, see!!!!" But is it the kata or how it is practiced? Is it the method or the man? Is it the tool, or what we are expecting from it? How did Kanbun teach kata? (Hint: he didn't have groups of students doing them from beginning to end in a simple cadence).

And of course let us not confuse the moon for the finger pointing at it (sport fighting for self-defense, LEO work, or what goes on when a Marine is on the job).

We all steal from each other. It's the person who executes best who wins at the end of the day.

IMHO...

- Bill

[Van Canna]

Bill,

Excellent post.

[gmattson]

on a positive note. Good advice in the early posts. Lets leave it that way.