Traditional Martial Arts - Division of Labor

[Bill Glasheen]

DANGER - THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WITH THIN SKINS AND/OR WEAK EGOS. BILL IS GOING TO ENGAGE IN SOME RANDOM B1TCHING.

Please hide the children.

RANT = ON

Many years back when I built up a martial arts program at UVa (started by Rad Smith), I became part of the development of a structure which helped the club tap into the considerable resources within the four dojo walls. Back in the Rad Smith days, I developed a "club sport" structure within the University dojo - complete with a constitution, officers, and official duties. The purpose? To tap into the student activity fees that all students had to pay. Writing budgets and making requests to the Student Council appropriations committees led to funding of sparring equipment, heavy bags, trips to New England for camps (for a few black belts), etc., etc.

Here's the thing. When I started this, Rad Smith was the instructor. As he developed his students, he was the "Chief Instructor." And the officers of the club? Well... nothing in the constitution I wrote dictated that an officer of the club had to be a black belt.

When Rad went to Harvard to get his MBA and the role of chief instructor was unceremoniously dumped on me at far too early a time, I eventually tapped into this structure that I had created. As Chief Instructor, did you think I wanted to be an office holder of the club? Hell no. Do you know what it takes to build a curriculum both for the club sport members and also for the PE classes I started? Do you know what it took to be there 3 or more days a week - initially for 4 hours at a time (multiple classes) while also a full time student? Heck... everyone in my graduate program predicted that my overextending myself would result in me being the typical no-PhD statistic. Three out of the 33 who started got that PhD. Three of us beat the odds. Who would have thunk that an over-extended, average athlete with slightly-better-than-average engineering abilities would be one of those three?

Again... there was no way that *I* could do it alone. Eventually I built that club to many classes at many levels, added in weapons, brought in outside styles, and paid to have big names (George, Bob Campbell, Jim Thompson, Buzz Durkin, etc., etc.) come in as guests to teach and socialize with the gang.

But not really... It was those officers of the club who did a lot of that heavy lifting. And where are they now? They are today's doctors, lawyers, PhD physicists, entrepreneurs in nanotechnology around the beltway, etc., etc. It was a quid pro quo scenario. I reminded people that hard work often led to future rewards, and I would be there to write recommendations that helped them along in their dreams. And I followed through. And they left me and prospered. And I am a proud papa.

Others did what I suked at. I love to teach. I love martial arts science. I am the consummate Shaolin monk who experiences and facilitates the whole package. But I suk at administrative duties. You don't want to know what my desk looks like right now. As I once told an assistant I hired, "I am allergic to paper." When phone calls need to be answered, forms filled out, dignitaries managed, accounting details scrutinized, equipment ordered, human cats herded, etc., etc., I am SOOO HAPPY to turn that schit over to someone who is better at it than I. I don't care what your walk of life is, what rank you have, what dangles between your legs, what accent you may or may not have, or which side of the tracks you walk on. If you can help me do something I can't and make yourself look better than me, well here's my response.



As an aside... I cannot imagine George being the complete George without Susan. I cannot imagine George being the famous person he is today without the considerable skills of the people whose lives he touched. And I cannot imagine Mr. Tomoyose being everything he has become without George. I'm just saying...

Here's the thing. What - to me - appears to be an obvious paradigm worked really well within The University environment. Not surprisingly it is one copied in corporate America as well. It's called division of labor. I can't remember when I had a boss who knew more math or science than I did. It's been since graduate school. And yet I love the people I work with. As a biomedical engineer, I relished the role of the person who could talk to anyone and keep the wheel rolling. I was thankful of the non-science people in marketing who helped sell the science I created. I was thankful of a non-science boss who gave me free reign and had my back. (And bad things happened when I had to report to an idiot non-science boss.)

But...

Somewhere in the whole idea of what the average person views as a "normal" dojo outside of the University, this paradigm seems to be unacceptable. When a non-black-belt Bruce Swenson got George Mattson or Jim Thompson to come visit us, I was happy. But when he contacted a certain someone in Northern Virginia who had a more military way of viewing the world, he got put off because he wasn't first contacted by and personally handled by me - the Chief Instructor.

And where was I? Trying to teach uncoordinated people how to use their bodies, and trying not to flunk out of graduate school. I'd like to tell you I had a personal life as well to tend to, but there are a few ex-girlfriends would would argue with my attentiveness (or lack thereof). Like... I really had time to put a needy female "first" in my life. (Sorry to those who are offended by that.)

George got it. Many did. And some were offended.

Recently I had a similar rift at "home." I tried to put some very capable administrative sorts in charge of a nasty transition from one unappreciative health club to a more accommodating and deserving one. I tried to start something that I know I suk at - teaching little kids. I tried to re-establish something that got dropped at UVa - a first-class website.

I "somewhat" succeeded. But not always.

In many ways, I am a radical egalitarian. I start all my classes in a circle. I'm not your god damned guru, and I don't want to be on your pedestal. You come to class to do martial arts. Kissing my belt isn't part of my curriculum. So if I have a brand new student who can fill a role, by golly I'm stepping aside and letting them take it.

And it sometimes works. Thanks to Shana for example, our website was restored. It's slowly being built up to what Ian and Tim had back in the day.

And sometimes it doesn't. I can't count how many times a busy me got the news that person A didn't respect what person B was trying to do ON BEHALF OF US ALL because said person was "not a black belt."

Excuse me, but WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING????

And here's the thing. I grew up with six sisters and I also have a twin. They are all highly educated. They have MBAs, Masters degrees, law degrees, etc. They are quietly but effectively the movers and shakers in our country. Some have helped manage corporations. One does "work" in the Pentagon. (I'm not asking...) One is a bank Vice President. One is head of personnel for a well-known company. Etc., etc. And do you know what my sisters tell me? OTHER WOMEN are their worst enemies. One sister tells me she used to use her male secretary to get past the female secretary of a company president she needed to deal with. I kid you not. You think boys behaving badly is a not-too-far-from-reality scenario? You women out there can be just as bad - TO EACH OTHER. Wow... when that estrogen flies,



And yet at the end of the day, each and every one of these people in the Shakespearean tragedy is a soul I'd take a bullet for. The people I can honestly say "I do not like" can be counted on my ten fingers. And that's from a double-nickel lifetime of experience with society. Each and every one of them is at least as good a person - if not better - than I.

But life happens.

RANT = OFF



- Bill

[maxwell ainley]

Bill,

Lots of us got saddled with the title of instructor ,in your case what attributes did you pick up along the way ? or would you say maybe it was all premature .

What happened over here was we were light years ahead of the Japs or the Okinawans for breaking away every thing was so fast , after that first rush for a black belt ,and as I now look back, a lot of us became independent free thinkers too early thinking we had reached the Ha stage ,and people used to think I was a master before I reached 30 years of age ,on the quiet my nickname was mad Max.

[gmattson]

I'm convinced that my "assistant" teacher program was a benefit to both the assistant teacher and new students. Trainees learned a lot about themselves and the style by helping new students and of course the newbies benefited from the extra attention.

Bill, being pretty much on his own, had to rely on his imagination and creativity to hold students' interest and keep them training. Over time, his instruction (as did all teachers outside Okinawa) improved and in my estimation, equaled or surpassed their own instructors.

Sometimes, being the "keeper" of the secrets in what the Chinese called "timecapsul" Uechi, prevents the system to improve and benefit from modern technology and methods in an attempt to preserve ancient ways.

[chef]

What is the problem with your class, Bill? Did I miss something?

Chef

[IJ]

Hey Bill. Sounds like some people never grow up. As in the rest of the world, goes karate. I inherited the class as a brown belt and actually don't remember any fuss about me not being a blackbelt (rational, perhaps, because I wasn't suddenly any good as a shodan). The only disrespect I recal was during one demo for new students when another classmate/peer, who fancied her first karate style, decided to interrupt to announce that "her" style was better because it taught knife defenses. This produced an interesting opportunity to take a rubber knife and cut that nonsense to ribbons for an entertained audience, even when the attacks were scripted. Har har.

Oh and there was that time the PE coordinator rebuffed my request for payment (like every other PE instructor) because "we've never paid you and the class helps your club," nevermind that I had a curriculum and extra free classes and the tennis guy asked "how do you teach tennis?" at the information session, but one question ("who's your supervisor?" and one letter later, I started getting my $800 a semester like everyone else. After 10 semesters, that letter writing proved to be time well spent!

Perhaps the breakdown after I left was due to the lack of a division of labor. Tim and I did most everything. Maybe it was the lack of incoming experienced students and the rarity of sufficient achievement during the few years people spent at college.

In any case, this fuss about rank has been more of an issue in medicine than back in our isolated dojo. People worry too much about what year someone is or what title they have, especially the snobbish doctors, and too little about WHETHER THE PERSON IS THE BEST AT WHAT THEY DO, HAS THE RELEVANT EXPERTISE, AND CAN FIX THE PROBLEM. Sometimes, it's even the smart person who has to be reminded. I remember an AIDS nurse practitioner apologetically making suggestions on a case and had to remind her I was a trainee MD, not an AIDS specialist, and there was solid data that NP's gave AIDS care comparable to ID specialists while the general doctors underperformed.

Some brownbelts organize or teach or inspire or fight better than blackbelts. That's just the nature of the world.

[PreyingMantis]

I agree highly with Bill and the rest of you folks. It is really and truely sad of some of the reactions that we all are in the DOJO to train with each other, to learn from each other. Nevermind the rank, Nevermind your physique, your beliefs etc. Some folks will claim to be Christian, yet in real life they judge others.

Folks, when you train anywhere in a DOJO you are all there for each other. It takes people of all backgrounds to create a complete association. Who gives a crap on who has what degree in college, what belt rank they are or if there are brand spankin new to the group?

Life is too short and I firmly believe we all are made differently to keep the world balanced. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. If people learned to use their strengths and weaknesses in a more positive and effective way think of what success would evolve from it?

I surely would not be able to respect anyone that thought so negatively of anyone in a class. I thought Martial Arts was learning to defend yourself????????? Why the hell does Drama have to be included? Is it because others thrive or "get off" of hurting others? If anything you should be gaining better self esteem with your training instead acting like a mindless bozo judging others and gossiping. Who the hell would respect that? NOT ME!

And might I add if it were a black belt doing the finger pointing all because they have a serious self esteem problem, why would anyone want to have them as a teacher? Bottom line is these ignorant, disrespectful, fools will do nothing but continuously fail in life, no matter what it is. If a person is uncomfortable with themselves then they will forever be uncomfortable with everyone else....SO VERY SAD!

These kinds of folks do nothing but DESTROY all the was worked hard for years to build. These kinds of people push the best talent that ever existed in a DOJO away, all because of their lack of empathy and selfishness. Yes, folks if you are the guilty one you need to take a real long look in the mirror. You may have spent years maybe even decades pursuing your dream to get where you are today. But if you are guilty of behaving so disrespectful then you show your Sensi only one thing.....THAT YOU DON"T RESPECT YOUR SENSI.....SO VERY SAD! That would be so heartbreaking to have trained you for so long and this would be the kind of appreciation you show in return. SHAME ON YOU! PEOPLE TALK! Rememeber that! Your damage is done but if you are smart for your own sake you will find a way to grow up, especially since you contributed to destroying years of teaching and trainging and HISTORY!!!!!!

That is my two cents....AT LEAST I WAS BEING POLITE!

[MikeK]

So rank means what?

If people are supposed to ignore rank then why wear belts, get a certificate, etc?

It could be those earning their ranks could be getting mixed signals to what their ranks really mean. So for the record, and to clarify for the students, what does rank mean?

[PreyingMantis]

When it comes to being asked to help keep the association together rank doesn't mean a damn thing...That is the whole point of this thread. RE - READ IT and you will see.

[MikeK]

So who should be in charge of the association or class, the white belts? Who has more skin in the game, those of higher rank or those with lower rank. Who should know more about training and what should benefit it.

I'm throwing these out there on face value alone as Bill hasn't given details on the situation as to who did what, who is complaining, the experience of the lower ranked person and what exactly did someone do to draw the ire of the high ranked person. Also was anything explained to the more senior students as to what and why the person was taking on the task in question?

[Bill Glasheen]

Well Mike... We could give names, dates and places. Or... we could keep it hypothetical and avoid insulting good people. I choose the latter.

I believe in the UVa Constitution, I clarified this. When it came to issues regarding technique standards, style preservation, testing for martial proficiency, etc., then rank matters. When it comes to administrative matters then rank doesn't matter.

Go to a typical medical practice. How many of the people working there actually deliver care? And can the MD do the work of the office manager? Of the coder? Of the receptionist?

Here's a bit of a gray area.

When it comes to teaching a group of 5-year-olds, then a person with a degree in education or any decent athletic trainer with experience teaching kids trumps a master of karate who never taught kids this age. With a program like that, it isn't about teaching how to kill and/or to defend yourself. It's about teaching kids to use their minds, bodies, and their self esteem so that they're eminently teachable later on. Trust me... I went through thousands at UVa. If I got someone who did years of gymnastics, much of my work was done. The only unknown was their ability to fight an uncooperative partner. If I got a woman from ballet, I knew she was good for a sokusen on day one. If I got a wrestler well... you get the picture.

Some of the real martial geniuses I've known (e.g. Bobby Campbell) started very early. It's just like any discipline. Dominicans are overrepresented in MLB because kids play ball as soon as they can walk. Canadians are good at hockey because dad gets them on skates as soon as they can stand.

But you don't teach a 5-year-old the same way you teach an adult. It's apples and oranges. And I know what I'm good at, and where I'm out of my area of expertise. As a black belt and a reasonably educated person, I know my belt doesn't mean squat in this venue.

- Bill

[nosib]

So what does rank mean? Basically,it represents the
amount of time one has actively been training. The concept
of "level of ability" = this or that rank, has taken a back seat.

Why wear belts? In our dojo we don't when training. Dan
testing and public demonstrations are the only occasions
we wrap that rag around our waist. Kyu promotions are
at the agreement of instructors and are awarded sans a
formal test...small dojo.

I Think there should be just two positions/descriptions...
Kyu Uechi ka and Dan Uechi ka with no numerical levels
and maybe 5 years minimum of training with a review before
the move from Kyu to Dan.

[Bill Glasheen]

We could give names, dates and places. Or... we could keep it hypothetical and avoid insulting good people. I choose the latter.

One post already deleted.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

Lots of us got saddled with the title of instructor ,in your case what attributes did you pick up along the way ? or would you say maybe it was all premature .

Max

I can honestly say that my early rise to running a martial arts program was one of the more formative experiences of my life.

For what it's worth, I am not alone. To start with, anyone who starts a martial art is in a special category. And then we have the case of Charles Earle who started teaching Uechi in the United States as a sankyu.

In my case I am both a better student and better instructor because of the experience. I took the initiative to continue my training by whatever means necessary. That meant forging a relationship with David Finkelstein who brought me through to shodan, hooking up with a Goju and aikido instructor to round out my education, choreographing my own exercises, visiting other dojos, and in general never, ever taking instruction time for granted.

Plus... one of the best ways to learn is to teach. I've spent a lifetime exercising that principle, as it worked so well for me in martial arts.

Did I teach a few squirrely things in my early years? Sure. But for instance... two of the four people in my first ever class of shodans are now physicians. Not too shabby. A third is a remarkable hedonistic individualist. Ya gotta love the person who walks down a unique path.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

That leaves me...

If you wish it so. Or not...

Phantom insults are just that. If a person feels badly about things, well fine. Otherwise if someone isn't specifically identified, then it doesn't make sense to assume there was a finger pointing in their direction. Why? Because more often than not, the person feeling guilty is just feeling guilty and no more.

It also doesn't make sense to name names when I have asked several times not to do so. So given that names were again mentioned (and incorrect statements were again made), I deleted yet another post.

Time to put the ego aside and address the issue. It's something most males have problems with. So don't feel alone on that one.

It's also forum policy by the way. Sticking to issues that is... Being male isn't a matter of choice, unless a surgeon and modern pharmacology are involved.

- Bill

[MikeK]

Well Mike... We could give names, dates and places. Or... we could keep it hypothetical and avoid insulting good people. I choose the latter.

That's fine. I can guess from their response that one poster may be involved.

I believe in the UVa Constitution, I clarified this. When it came to issues regarding technique standards, style preservation, testing for martial proficiency, etc., then rank matters. When it comes to administrative matters then rank doesn't matter.

I agree, but has the role of the admin person been explained? Is admin getting in the way of the training or helping facilitate it while being unobtrusive? If I'm wondering if the new gi or patches I ordered has come in, or if I'm calling about a class schedule then I don't need to speak to someone with rank or who even does karate. But if I do have a question about if I'm ready to test or what I need to work on then I definitely want to speak with someone with rank and experience and authority.

Here's a bit of a gray area.

When it comes to teaching a group of 5-year-olds, then a person with a degree in education or any decent athletic trainer with experience teaching kids trumps a master of karate who never taught kids this age. With a program like that, it isn't about teaching how to kill and/or to defend yourself. It's about teaching kids to use their minds, bodies, and their self esteem so that they're eminently teachable later on. Trust me... I went through thousands at UVa. If I got someone who did years of gymnastics, much of my work was done. The only unknown was their ability to fight an uncooperative partner. If I got a woman from ballet, I knew she was good for a sokusen on day one. If I got a wrestler well... you get the picture.

But you don't teach a 5-year-old the same way you teach an adult. It's apples and oranges. And I know what I'm good at, and where I'm out of my area of expertise. As a black belt and a reasonably educated person, I know my belt doesn't mean squat in this venue.

- Bill

Now you've moved onto a separate topic from admin. I mostly agree, but anytime a class is being taught that is directly associated with a karate school, then there should be a senior ranked person around, in an office, or quietly watching in civilian clothes or even being a quiet assistant to who is teaching, but somewhere.

Now if you're running a separate children's program and it's not a part of the regular school then having someone with no advanced rank should be fine. But the classes should be kept very separate and a distinct line between the two.

Now these are just my opinions based on my experience.