If this is not the correct forum to discuss selection of style please disregard.
If so, then could someone point me down the correct path. I have been reading online information reagarding differences in styles to study. I am not looking for competition, but to gain physical training, self defense, and training of my mind.
If someone could suggest a book to get me in the correct location of 'accurate' information, that would be greatly appreciated. I have read Tao Te Ching, and Art of War. (recommended to me about 10 years ago) I would like to read about history, beliefs, as well as the techniques of the art.
If you are still reading this, here is more about me. I just turned 30, still quite athletic, about 15 lbs overweight though. Very coordinated and enjoy sports... any sport, basketball, skiing, football, golf, swimming, pretty much anything.
I would like to find an art that will combine soft techniques and hard techniques, with a emphasis on mind control (Tai Chi). I have been swayed to Hapkido and Akido based on what I have read so far. Also interested in Shotokan Karate....
Any information would help.
Thanks!
Mike
Decision on style
Moderator: Available
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Decision on style
It seems you find an interest in the extremes, from the hard (Shotokan, Hapkido) to the soft (tai chi, aikido). I also see an interest here in arts that have a bit of grabbing or throwing.
The Uechi system (what most of us practice) is not a bad choice. It is half hard, and half soft, and is open handed. There's a lot of room to customize it to your needs.
As for classics in martial arts, well you've started with some pretty heavy stuff. Why not look at Musashi's "Book of Five Rings." If you can get through the Tao Te Ching, then that book will give you something to ponder for a bit.
The "mind" thing in martial arts is both much less and much more than people make it out to be. As I tell my students, the material in a good martial art is like an onion, with many layers available as long as one is willing to keep peeling. In this style and in other sanchin-based arts like Goju Ryu, one starts with forms that are considered walking meditation. At first glance it's pretty simple. But you don't even begin to appreciate the elegance and the potential until long after you have immersed yourself in the advanced material and mucked that up. Only then will you appreciate that the basics are what it is all about. Only then will you appreciate that the journey is personal, introspective, and never-ending.
If you look elsewhere on this website, you will find a number of books on this system. If you have further questions about a choice, someone will surely chime in.
- Bill
The Uechi system (what most of us practice) is not a bad choice. It is half hard, and half soft, and is open handed. There's a lot of room to customize it to your needs.
As for classics in martial arts, well you've started with some pretty heavy stuff. Why not look at Musashi's "Book of Five Rings." If you can get through the Tao Te Ching, then that book will give you something to ponder for a bit.
The "mind" thing in martial arts is both much less and much more than people make it out to be. As I tell my students, the material in a good martial art is like an onion, with many layers available as long as one is willing to keep peeling. In this style and in other sanchin-based arts like Goju Ryu, one starts with forms that are considered walking meditation. At first glance it's pretty simple. But you don't even begin to appreciate the elegance and the potential until long after you have immersed yourself in the advanced material and mucked that up. Only then will you appreciate that the basics are what it is all about. Only then will you appreciate that the journey is personal, introspective, and never-ending.
If you look elsewhere on this website, you will find a number of books on this system. If you have further questions about a choice, someone will surely chime in.
- Bill
Decision on style
Well, I certainly agree wholeheartedly with the Go Rin No Sho (book of five rings)(seeing how I do Iaido I kinda have to like the book 
). Might I suggest what is considered to be the sequal to the Tao Te Ching? The Chuang Tsu. It wasn't written by Lao Tsu, but by his top student. It's the famous book where the "I dreamt I was a butterfly, and when I awoke I wasn't sure if I was a man who dreamt he was a butterfly or a butterfly who dreams he is a man" comes from. It's a good read.
-David
). Might I suggest what is considered to be the sequal to the Tao Te Ching? The Chuang Tsu. It wasn't written by Lao Tsu, but by his top student. It's the famous book where the "I dreamt I was a butterfly, and when I awoke I wasn't sure if I was a man who dreamt he was a butterfly or a butterfly who dreams he is a man" comes from. It's a good read.-David
-
jorvik
Decision on style
as to reading
anybody tried "miyamoto musashi" by eiiji Yoshikawa, its a kinda Japanese "gone with the wind" i really enjoyed it.( in translation, of course)
as to the choice of styles i think that at 30 you would probably be better doing something like uechi, because it has the depth, but also the practicality- its basically a popular southern gung fu style(albeit exported to okinawa/japan), chinese street fighting par/excellance.
a word of warning avoid the "internal arts" like the plague ( you may be turned to the " dark side" but more likely loose big bucks)
and come to that, generally be very,very suspicious of martial arts clubs.
i have done a lot of the internal stuff, ive never found a taichister who could fight worth a carrot, and aikido takes far too long to learn how to fall right.
plus all the rubbish they spout at you.
example
" you must empty your mind and extend your ki to the end of the universe"
......sensei?" what is ki?"
....."it is the power of the universe"
....."sensei? is it a quarke?"
seriously, watch your wallet, dont subscribe to something you think you might like. ( if your worried about self defence buy a good knife...any proper martial artist, worth his salt, will tell you that its the last thing that they want to come up against)
once youve made your choice ( stick at it for about 6 months before looking elsewhere)
good hunting
anybody tried "miyamoto musashi" by eiiji Yoshikawa, its a kinda Japanese "gone with the wind" i really enjoyed it.( in translation, of course)
as to the choice of styles i think that at 30 you would probably be better doing something like uechi, because it has the depth, but also the practicality- its basically a popular southern gung fu style(albeit exported to okinawa/japan), chinese street fighting par/excellance.
a word of warning avoid the "internal arts" like the plague ( you may be turned to the " dark side" but more likely loose big bucks)
and come to that, generally be very,very suspicious of martial arts clubs.
i have done a lot of the internal stuff, ive never found a taichister who could fight worth a carrot, and aikido takes far too long to learn how to fall right.
plus all the rubbish they spout at you.
example
" you must empty your mind and extend your ki to the end of the universe"
......sensei?" what is ki?"
....."it is the power of the universe"
....."sensei? is it a quarke?"
seriously, watch your wallet, dont subscribe to something you think you might like. ( if your worried about self defence buy a good knife...any proper martial artist, worth his salt, will tell you that its the last thing that they want to come up against)
once youve made your choice ( stick at it for about 6 months before looking elsewhere)
good hunting
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Decision on style
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
When I first started learning aikido, my instructor used to chuckle every time he saw me doing rolls. It was even more "comical" for an outsider to watch because I first learned in a home dojo that was nothing more than a rug over concrete.
After weeks of amusement, he dubbed me "the albatross." (For the unenlightened, the albatross isn't particular about how it goes from air to land. "Crash landing" is a kind word.)
These days when I teach rolls and falls - and demonstrate they can be done on hardwood floors when you master them - I remind people of the name I was once given. Yes, you too can learn this.
- Bill
aikido takes far too long to learn how to fall right
When I first started learning aikido, my instructor used to chuckle every time he saw me doing rolls. It was even more "comical" for an outsider to watch because I first learned in a home dojo that was nothing more than a rug over concrete.
After weeks of amusement, he dubbed me "the albatross." (For the unenlightened, the albatross isn't particular about how it goes from air to land. "Crash landing" is a kind word.)These days when I teach rolls and falls - and demonstrate they can be done on hardwood floors when you master them - I remind people of the name I was once given. Yes, you too can learn this.
- Bill
-
jorvik
Decision on style
as to aikido
ive tried a few styles, for many years i did the hombu stuff, sometimes refered to as "traditional", but just before my hip went bad on me and i stopped training i found a club that practiced "shudokan" or sport aiki( trad guys are always badmouthing them).and they were really amazing. the teacher had 40 years judo,30 years aiki ( had also done, and taught, trad aiki).he used to regularly go to Japan to teach.
the throws are done a bit differently nobody wears a skirt( hakama), and its a lot faster and has much more street cred, the break falls (ukemi) are also a bit different everybody could do a "flip" for kotegaesh, but there were a lot more backbreakfalls, and some of the throws into these could be really mean, usual aikido stuff, but variations that were quite a bit different, and there was the sporting element which was quite a lot like sparing and great fun.
i learned a really great throw called shomen ate, which is just basically cupping your hand around your partners chin and stepping forward to throw them.if you have a chance to study this style its well worth it. i ll be going back once i get my shiny new titanium hip in the new year.
also there s no ki masters there..
[This message has been edited by jorvik (edited June 26, 2002).]
ive tried a few styles, for many years i did the hombu stuff, sometimes refered to as "traditional", but just before my hip went bad on me and i stopped training i found a club that practiced "shudokan" or sport aiki( trad guys are always badmouthing them).and they were really amazing. the teacher had 40 years judo,30 years aiki ( had also done, and taught, trad aiki).he used to regularly go to Japan to teach.
the throws are done a bit differently nobody wears a skirt( hakama), and its a lot faster and has much more street cred, the break falls (ukemi) are also a bit different everybody could do a "flip" for kotegaesh, but there were a lot more backbreakfalls, and some of the throws into these could be really mean, usual aikido stuff, but variations that were quite a bit different, and there was the sporting element which was quite a lot like sparing and great fun.
i learned a really great throw called shomen ate, which is just basically cupping your hand around your partners chin and stepping forward to throw them.if you have a chance to study this style its well worth it. i ll be going back once i get my shiny new titanium hip in the new year.
also there s no ki masters there..
[This message has been edited by jorvik (edited June 26, 2002).]
-
Ted Dinwiddie
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Charlottesville,VA,USA
Decision on style
mnrjr2,
Shop schools and teachers.
You have some notions about styles and what they are and are not, but the teacher will be the key. This will spill over to the kinds of individuals that you will learn with/from who have also chosen this teacher/school. Your compatibility with and acceptance by these people will make more difference than the style you choose.
------------------
ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
Shop schools and teachers.
You have some notions about styles and what they are and are not, but the teacher will be the key. This will spill over to the kinds of individuals that you will learn with/from who have also chosen this teacher/school. Your compatibility with and acceptance by these people will make more difference than the style you choose.
------------------
ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
Decision on style
Jorvik-
The first post I read by you, I could tell we were going to get along!
Of course I have read Yoshikawa's Musashi (and seen the Kurusawa movie of the same.) He does a great job and, from what I have heard, stays fairly true to what few facts are known about Kensei Musashi. Great book. One of my very favorites.
I have also read the other two members of the trilogy, Taiko and the Heike Story. Of those, Taiko was by far the better (though not nearly as good as Musashi). These three are a great way to learn a bit about the history of Japan and how the Japanese think about themselves.
To tie this back in to the thread and Mike's query ....
After you read The Book of Five Rings, you should read "Musashi." Then, there's a bunch of stuff by Tukuan and Munenori Yagu. You can get these from Amazon, or maybe even this site. These really aren't "Which style should I choose?" stuff. Rather, they are "What the heck do I do with my mind?" IMOHO, anyway. Have fun reading.
As far as a style, like many here, I've studied several MAs including two of those you listed. After I found Uechi, I lost all desire to wander elsewhere.
Hapkido??? Cool! If you live in LA, there's one hecka teacher!
By the way- Jorvik... do you live in York or are you a Viking? ;-)
my best to you all,
T
***
as to reading
anybody tried "miyamoto musashi" by eiiji Yoshikawa, its a kinda Japanese "gone with the wind" i really enjoyed it.( in translation, of course)
***
[This message has been edited by Tokezu (edited June 26, 2002).]
The first post I read by you, I could tell we were going to get along!
Of course I have read Yoshikawa's Musashi (and seen the Kurusawa movie of the same.) He does a great job and, from what I have heard, stays fairly true to what few facts are known about Kensei Musashi. Great book. One of my very favorites.
I have also read the other two members of the trilogy, Taiko and the Heike Story. Of those, Taiko was by far the better (though not nearly as good as Musashi). These three are a great way to learn a bit about the history of Japan and how the Japanese think about themselves.
To tie this back in to the thread and Mike's query ....
After you read The Book of Five Rings, you should read "Musashi." Then, there's a bunch of stuff by Tukuan and Munenori Yagu. You can get these from Amazon, or maybe even this site. These really aren't "Which style should I choose?" stuff. Rather, they are "What the heck do I do with my mind?" IMOHO, anyway. Have fun reading.
As far as a style, like many here, I've studied several MAs including two of those you listed. After I found Uechi, I lost all desire to wander elsewhere.
Hapkido??? Cool! If you live in LA, there's one hecka teacher!
By the way- Jorvik... do you live in York or are you a Viking? ;-)
my best to you all,
T
***
as to reading
anybody tried "miyamoto musashi" by eiiji Yoshikawa, its a kinda Japanese "gone with the wind" i really enjoyed it.( in translation, of course)
***
[This message has been edited by Tokezu (edited June 26, 2002).]
Decision on style
Just my thoughts.
For karate reading, I reccomend
- Weaponless Warrior
- Living the Martial Way
- Classical Man
These are good and maybe you would enjoy them also. Best Wishes in your search, Sunsu
P.S. Even though I am not affiliated with Uechi (I am with Isshin-ryu) I believe that Uechi may be what you are looking for. They are well-rounded!
For karate reading, I reccomend
- Weaponless Warrior
- Living the Martial Way
- Classical Man
These are good and maybe you would enjoy them also. Best Wishes in your search, Sunsu
P.S. Even though I am not affiliated with Uechi (I am with Isshin-ryu) I believe that Uechi may be what you are looking for. They are well-rounded!
-
jorvik
Decision on style
hey tokezu,
we must have similar minds,
no im not a viking, and i dont live in york,
but it does happen to be one of my favorite places...hence the name ( also on my isp, all the cool names had gone...you know bruce lee...darth maul..etc)( joke)
we must have similar minds,
no im not a viking, and i dont live in york,
but it does happen to be one of my favorite places...hence the name ( also on my isp, all the cool names had gone...you know bruce lee...darth maul..etc)( joke)
-
jorvik
Decision on style
getting back to books, there is one that i would recommend, " the power of internal martial arts" by bruce kumar franztis.
its a really excellent read and doesnt just cover the internal arts( tai- chi, hsing-i, and bag-wha to the ininitiated) but also talks about all his training, its a read rather than a training manual and i did enjoy it- one thing though, i m still not that keen on the internal arts as fighting arts, so i dont believe everything thats written about "chi", "ki" your "hara" and whatever.
its a really excellent read and doesnt just cover the internal arts( tai- chi, hsing-i, and bag-wha to the ininitiated) but also talks about all his training, its a read rather than a training manual and i did enjoy it- one thing though, i m still not that keen on the internal arts as fighting arts, so i dont believe everything thats written about "chi", "ki" your "hara" and whatever.
-
Ted Dinwiddie
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Charlottesville,VA,USA
Decision on style
Books that haven't been mentioned:
Eugene Herrigel, "Zen in the Art of Archery"
David Lowry, "Autumn Lightning"
Major Bill Hayes, "My Journey with the Grandmaster"
Mark Bishop, "Okinawan Karate" and "Zen Kobudo"
------------------
ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
Eugene Herrigel, "Zen in the Art of Archery"
David Lowry, "Autumn Lightning"
Major Bill Hayes, "My Journey with the Grandmaster"
Mark Bishop, "Okinawan Karate" and "Zen Kobudo"
------------------
ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
Decision on style
I have read pieces of "My Journey with the Grandmaster" by Bill Hayes and that is a truly great read. Hopefully I will get a chance to read more on it later, but right now it is on loan-out! I second the reccomendations with 2 thumbs up!
~sjr
"a mind is calm only when clear"
~sjr
"a mind is calm only when clear"
-
jorvik
Decision on style
hi ted,
read the first two, both excellent, david lowry is a professional writer( and it really shows) he s written for a lot of mags, including modern m.a. mags
the other one " zen in the art of archery" is a classic, and isnt just a martial artists book.
Ill try and get the others from the library
( i dont buy books any longer-i hate to hoard things- i love minimullism, though i find that hard with reading matter, and i end up with a wardrobe filled full of books)
ever read " fighting spirit of Japan" by E.J.
Harrison
or also anything by Trevor Leggert, I have a copy of "zen and the ways " that i bought when i was 13, after all this talk. i think that i ll read it again.
p.s. hope we don't start to generalise, or this will become a philophile/bookworm site.
read the first two, both excellent, david lowry is a professional writer( and it really shows) he s written for a lot of mags, including modern m.a. mags
the other one " zen in the art of archery" is a classic, and isnt just a martial artists book.
Ill try and get the others from the library
( i dont buy books any longer-i hate to hoard things- i love minimullism, though i find that hard with reading matter, and i end up with a wardrobe filled full of books)
ever read " fighting spirit of Japan" by E.J.
Harrison
or also anything by Trevor Leggert, I have a copy of "zen and the ways " that i bought when i was 13, after all this talk. i think that i ll read it again.
p.s. hope we don't start to generalise, or this will become a philophile/bookworm site.
-
Malcolm Wagner
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Maurepas, La., USA
Decision on style
I am surprised that no one mentioned it yet, but I really enjoyed "Karate-Do, May Way of Life" by Gichin Funakoshi.
I think you should judge a dojo by it's Sensei---especially the way he treats his juniors. Are the other black-belts robots or talented free-thinkers. Does he/she make you feel comfortable or does he talk down to you.
What is your body style? Tall and thin?--try Shorin-Ryu. Stocky and close to the ground?---try Goju-Ryu. A nice mixture?---Uechi-Ryu or my particular flavor---Isshinryu---a nice blend of Shorin and Goju and weapons.
If you go Korean---try Hapkido. If you like to grab and submit---definitely go Jiu-JItsu, but keep in mind that since the Gracie-Revolution (early nineties), many karate schools have added some form of grappling, so you get the best of both worlds (standing and grounding).
You are in a unique position to have a lot of fun, so go take a few introductory classes at all the schools in your area---if they won't give you one free lesson or at least let you watch, don't waste your time.
I tried to watch a mystical White Crane Kung Fu class one time, but was told by the Sifu that he did not trust me enough yet to even let me watch---that is unless I signed a year long contract first. I kind of understood, he was a traditionalist, but the other part of me wanted to tell him to spread his white wings and go jump off the nearest bridge.
One thing more---if you choose a relatively hard style, make sure that you balance it out with something soft, like Yoga or Tai Chi, your body will thank you one day.
Mal
"A person's unbalance is the same as a weight."
I think you should judge a dojo by it's Sensei---especially the way he treats his juniors. Are the other black-belts robots or talented free-thinkers. Does he/she make you feel comfortable or does he talk down to you.
What is your body style? Tall and thin?--try Shorin-Ryu. Stocky and close to the ground?---try Goju-Ryu. A nice mixture?---Uechi-Ryu or my particular flavor---Isshinryu---a nice blend of Shorin and Goju and weapons.
If you go Korean---try Hapkido. If you like to grab and submit---definitely go Jiu-JItsu, but keep in mind that since the Gracie-Revolution (early nineties), many karate schools have added some form of grappling, so you get the best of both worlds (standing and grounding).
You are in a unique position to have a lot of fun, so go take a few introductory classes at all the schools in your area---if they won't give you one free lesson or at least let you watch, don't waste your time.
I tried to watch a mystical White Crane Kung Fu class one time, but was told by the Sifu that he did not trust me enough yet to even let me watch---that is unless I signed a year long contract first. I kind of understood, he was a traditionalist, but the other part of me wanted to tell him to spread his white wings and go jump off the nearest bridge.
One thing more---if you choose a relatively hard style, make sure that you balance it out with something soft, like Yoga or Tai Chi, your body will thank you one day.
Mal
"A person's unbalance is the same as a weight."
