Good talk on blocks

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:06 pm

We're all familiar with the "Miranda Warning". The first line goes something like: "You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you."

In practice, this is not accurate. It SHOULD say, "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say or do, can and will be written down inaccurately, misconstrued, misunderstood, twisted, distorted and manipulated and then used against you.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:11 pm

....plan for the traffic stop. Never keep your loaded gun in the same place as your registration, or insurance card. Officers dont like you reaching for something in the same place as your weapon.

So I planned to keep it in my visor. I also planned that I would retrieve my wallet in the short time it takes for the officer to come up to my vehicle and planned to have it visable before he got to me so he would know that I am a ccw holder and have my hands in plain view so he knew without a doubt that I did not have a weapon in my hands, as he approached.

Only problem I see here is to not be reaching behind you as the officer is walking up. He will be looking for movement, and reaching around your back for your wallet looks like you are reaching for a gun.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:21 pm

I could not agree with you more, Craig. Believe me, I speak from experience. The police report will twist and distort anything you say or do to support the officer's position, reason for the arrest, making a case against you, etc.

My cynicism is the result of what I went through involving me getting arrested on a trumped up charge, with the charges being dismissed upon appearing in court.

This after having to spend thousands of $ for an attorney and undergoing hours and hours of worry and anxiety on my and my wife's part.

We knew that no matter how innocent you are, the court decision can easily go against you.

As a result of this incident, I am thoroughly soured on the law, and have learned that the best recourse is to just keep your mouth shut.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:45 pm

This is a no-brainer guys. You do what the law in your state says to do. If you are required to notify immediatly, then do so. If not, stay calm, keep your hands in sight of the officer, keep your mouth shut, and do what he/she asks.

If you are asked to step out of your vehicle or asked if you have any weapons in your vehicle, tell the officer at that time that you have a CCDW license and where your weapon(s) are.

It ain't rocket science. Some states have your CCDW wired in with your vehicle registration; so when the officer runs your numbers on his computer, it will display that you have a license.

When he finds out by looking at your driver's license that the owner of the car is in fact the driver of the car and has a CCDW, he knows at that point that he is dealing with someone who is a law-abiding citizen and has no violent criminal record. BE NICE!! Your are representing all of us. Thanks.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:48 pm

Mark: I agree with you 100% In Fla. I am sure you know, the general rule and it was written in "Florida firearms Law, Use & ownership" Written by Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq. Who is a criminal and civil attorney in the state.

That as a General Rule "Never Volunteer" that information.

He thinks the best approach is if you are ASKED say something that "legalizes" Your position.

ie Officer I have a concealed permit in my wallet. I also have a legally concealed firearm. would you like to see the permit? Then comply with his demands.

Remember officers are creatures of "respect" so don't dis them or be a smart butt. Because jail ***** even if it is for just one night.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:50 pm

Five Rules for CONCEALED Carry


1. Your concealed handgun is for protection of life only.

Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and life-threatening criminal actions of another.

2. Know exactly when you can use your gun.

A criminal adversary must have, or reasonably appear to have:

I. the ability to inflict serious bodily injury (he is armed or reasonably appears to be armed with a deadly weapon),
II. the opportunity to inflict serious bodily harm (he is physically positioned to harm you with his weapon), and
III. his intent (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy -- to do you serious or fatal physical harm.

When all three of these "attack potential" elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that can justify an emergency deadly force response.

3. If you can run away -- RUN!

Just because you're armed doesn't necessarily mean you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your "situation awareness" skills so you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble altogether.

Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might be your bruised ego, which should heal with mature rationalization.

But if you force a confrontation you risk the possibility of you or a family member being killed or suffering lifelong crippling/disfiguring physical injury, criminal liability and/or financial ruin from civil lawsuit. Flee if you can, fight only as a last resort.

4. Display your gun, go to jail.

You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional or innocent or justified the situation might seem. Choose a method of carry that keeps your gun reliably hidden from public view at all times.

You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed handgun. He or she might become alarmed and report you to police as a "man or woman with a gun."

Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might be willing to maliciously embellish his or her story in attempt to have your gun seized by police or to get you arrested.

An alarmed citizen who reports a "man with a gun" is going to be more credible to police than you when you're stopped because you match the suspect's description, and you're found to have a concealed handgun in your possession.

Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself: "Is this worth going to jail for?" The only time this question should warrant a "yes" response is when an adversary has at least, both ability and intent, and is actively seeking the opportunity to do you great harm.

5. Don't let your emotions get the best of you.

If, despite your best efforts to the contrary, you do get into some kind of heated dispute with another person while you're armed, never mention, imply or exhibit your gun for the purpose of intimidation or one-upmanship. You'll simply make a bad situation worse -- for yourself (see rule #4).

copied from: FirearmsTactical.com
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:00 pm

The Five Shootings
1. The First Shooting: The use of deadly force.
2. The Second Shooting: Criminal Liability.
3. The Third Shooting: Civil Liability
4. The Forth Shooting: Public Notoriety
5. The Fifth Shooting: Emotional, Spiritual, and Physical Aftermath

(This is not intended to be a tutorial, but simply food for thought.)
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:03 pm

3. The Third Shooting: Civil Liability

In today's litigious society, even if the use of deadly force was lawful, the shooter may be sued in civil court for some money-grubber's version of wrongful death or negligence.

If the use of deadly force was not lawful, a civil suit is almost certain.

4. The Forth Shooting: Public Notoriety

It is extremely likely that the shooter will become, at least a local, if not a national, “person of interest”. The shooter's name and address will likely become well known locally.
And, don't be surprised if the shooter makes the National Network News at 6, 8, 10, and 11 PM for a day or two.

Family, friends, and neighbors will talk. Their attitude toward the shooter will change.

The world will “feel” much differently about the shooter… and will the world treat the shooter good or bad... better or worse?


5. The Fifth Shooting: Emotional, Spiritual, and Physical Aftermath

It is an accepted fact that most of us will (and, unfortunately, some very good people “do”) suffer emotional and spiritual anguish after having taken another's life, even if it was justified and the only reasonable course of action.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:06 pm

what to say

A prosecutor was attempting to paint a VERY eldery woman (80's?) as a wanton murderer when she had killed an assailant.

Prosecutor:
"So, Madam, the Coroner has testified that he found eight bullets in the deceased's lifeless body. Can you tell the court why you found it necessary to shoot him eight times?"


Defendant:
"Because he kept coming and eight was all I had."


Prosecutor looking mighty foolish and "grandma" walked.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:09 pm

thumbs forward


I've been to training classes that taught the thumbs forward grip. After the first one, having changed my grip, my shooting improved immensely! I've never felt any effect to my thumbs when using the grip I was taught, not once. I don't "clamp" my thumbs tightly against the slide, my thumbs tend to ride the frame just barely below the slide.

The strength in the technique is it allows the pad of the weak hand below the weak hand thumb to strongly contact the weak side grip. When done correctly, this WILL GREATLY increase both accuracy AND control-ability. You will be able to shoot more accurately, and at a faster rate.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:10 pm

When you call the police. You will also tell them to send paramedics and ambulance. The 911 call will be the first evidence heard against or for you in court. They will probably ask you, why did you try to save his life after you just tried to kill him.


When making the 911 call. Inform them you were scared for your life. That you shot a BG. Send the police and medical team. And thats it. Put the phone down and dont talk to the 911 operator anymore. Then stay on high alert and dont let your guard down for nothing.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:13 pm

"I am an X EMT and my plan if I ever had to stop a threat with lethal force, I would immediately after contacting the LEO start basic life support."

Let's not even consider HIV, Hepatitis and myriad other pathogens borne of bodily fluids and that the perp is now leaking and coughing up all manner of "yucky stuff".

Let's simply consider that they have just tried to kill you.

Are you suggesting that you would now get within arm's reach to provide medical assistance?

I cannot even remotely imagine that anyone, especially a judge or jury, would consider this wise from any perspective regardless of your training or abilities.

In Minnesota, you are "obligated to provide medical assistance". If you have called 911 for an ambulance, you have met the requirement.

Stay away! They may not be done with you and getting close enough to render aid will only give them another opportunity at you.

Regarding the "Good Samaritan Law", there is a HUGE misunderstanding on this.

No one, regardless of capability, training, opportunity or happenstance is required by any law to provide treatment. Good Samaritan Laws protect those not engaged in "gross negligence" from litigation.



Craig R. Brownell
Chief Instructor,
www.mnpistolclass.com
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:17 pm

Good Samaritan Laws protect those not engaged in "gross negligence" from litigation. This statement was made and is correct to a certain degree.

Since I was a LEO and A paramedic, I thought I would give my two cents. First off, it only protects people who are not licensed.

Lets say you do CPR on someone and you do it wrong, but you are certified by your local Red Cross, the Good Samaritan laws does not cover you in any State that I know of.

Then, lets cover this.....Lets say you are not licensed/certified and you try and help someone you just shot, the person you try to save or the grieving mother who gets on the news telling the public how her son went to church and was a good boy that never caused trouble, is not only going to try to push the DA to prosecute you on criminal charges(which could happen if public pressure gets to high),


she will also try to sue you in civil court.

So lets see, Your Honor, this man shot my son and he wasn't doing anything wrong(not considering his 20 arrest for selling Crack).

So you are in court and being sued(civilly) for killing her Son and even if she loses the case, have you even begun to consider the legal fees that you are going to have to shell out to defend yourself from a civil case?

Then, when she wins or loses the killing case, she is going to blame you for improper medical treatment of her Son and if you would have performed the treatment properly, her Son would still be here today.

She will probably even pay a few doctors to come and be witnesses on her side. Ok, ya, the Samaritan Act covers you if your not Licensed/certified, but look at the legal fees you would be looking at again. You would win the case, but I don't know of any legal fee refunds at the end.

So this is my viewpoint. When I was going through my Criminal Justice Degree work, they said that 90% of inmates return within the first year from leaving prison. The also said that it cost $23,000(this study was from 1990) to keep an inmate in prison.

So lets see, you just shot a violent felon who probably is going to do it again and next time, he will probably kill someone. So why would you want to possibly save someones life who for one, probably is going to sue the heck out of you, wouldn't even think twice about killing you, and when he gets out of prison, may come looking for you or do it again but this time kill someone?

The way I look at it is, he made a bad choice(s) and we all must pay the consequences of our decisions. I would let him lay there and die. If he died, it would end the cycle right there and then.

:?:
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:19 pm

Carrying in Mass

In a nutshell, your gun is a tool of last resort. You must never draw unless you have no other option. You have tried to evade, you are overpowered, etc. That the only recourse is to take that "human" life to save yourself and/or loved ones.

Remember to be carrying your other tools - surefire flashlight, knife, cell phone, and most importantly - your OC spray.

If you don't have OC spray on your person and you are carrying a firearm, you are making your legal grounds extremely thin to stand on (at least here in the People's Republic).

That's really important here. If you have shot someone and on your person you do not have OC spray and a cell phone as other "tools" in your "box," you will not have a good day in court.

Really, please do not carry that handgun in MA without those items.

It's a real bad situation here if you haven't proven that you wanted to use other options. The proof will be in what is in your pockets when the officers arrive.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:13 pm

The Parking Lot

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/fringe.html

This is an excellent read on the danger of 'fringe areas'

McYoung
Fringe areas are places "in between." And it is here that criminals usually operate. This is where you are most likely to be attacked, mugged or raped.


Parking lots
Although there are many fringe areas, we tend to emphasize parking lots. Simply stated there is no place more likely for you to be robbed than a parking lot. They are a hotbed of carjackings. And most personal robberies happen here(1). The presence of vehicles also makes it easy for rapists to kidnap a victim and take her to a secondary location for rape.

Parking lots offer the best advantages of fringe areas. They are close enough to where people congregate to offer enough passerbys to choose the best victims. Parking lots are isolated enough that a victim will be beyond immediate help. And someone rich enough to afford a car will have money (or goods worth stealing).

Most people are "wrapped up in their own head" while passing through the area and not paying attention to what is going on around them. This makes it easy to set them up for a violent assault or robbery.

In addition, the areas offer easy escape routes for the criminal(s) in that they have easy access to the streets and they can obstruct your view (by jumping into a car the next aisle over and speeding away, odds are that you will not see the license plate).

When you enter a parking structure and you see a loitering person or a group, the bells need to go off. This is a serious sign of not potential, but probable, trouble. Continuing on is literally walking into the lion's jaws -- especially if they focus on you. This is one of the reasons you need to pretend you are a mugger for a week. Once you have done this exercise, seeing someone in this position will scream danger to you.

It also is not uncommon for muggers to "hang out" at the mall entrance under the guise of smoking. Although not as common, selecting a victim who is in the mall and then following her out to her car also occurs. Both of these can be foiled by simply looking around -- and that includes behind you -- when entering a fringe area. If someone follows, return to the mall.
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