We ARE about high road training

[Bill Glasheen]

Maybe the questions for now are the following:

1) What ARE all the various manifestations of amygdala-driven movement? What are the basic mechanics of motion involved in this movement?

2) What do we want to accomplish in a fight? When we want to INITIATE the fight? When we are surprise attacked? When we slip and fall?

3) What are the high road possibilities?

4) How far apart are items in 3 related to items in 1? How big of a gap can we tolerate and still have something worth working for? How small of a gap can we deal with when things deteriorate, and still have a difference worth having?

5) How much can we widen that gap with control of SSR? When can we control SSR? Can we directly measure that ability the way we grade things like fitness, strength, power, endurance, or kata performance?

And here's a good one that folks forget...

6) How can we narrow that gap in our opponent so their possibilites are reduced? A simple example in sports is calling a time out before a critical foul shot to "ice" your opponent.

I like the "build upon" idea here. If you always can see the core low road movement, even something complex may not be all that far off the mark. You go as complex as the situation and your ability allows, but you always have the fallback of simple, simple, simple at least saving your a$$ in a pinch.

And frankly, I sometimes wonder if this doesn't actually call for us to build complex on top of simple so we have "spare ability" on the street? This is what you do in education (overteach) to make sure someone has a concept down. This is what you do on the firing range (have them shoot at smaller-than-life human targets) so they are "adeqate" at the moment of truth.

As a friend of mind once said about sports performance, "Take 10 to 20 percent off your gymnasium performance, and this is what you get in competition." So you train to be that much better than what you need.

- Bill

[JimHawkins]

Rich,

Like Mike I followed the Wild West Tech series. Really amazing and they recounted many gun battles in great detail.

Like Mike mentioned, in the old days, they seem to use the shoot and pray method. It seems that some of them were quite good at this. There was some discussion about the fellow who stayed 'in control' and didn't 'rush it' most often prevailing, even when the other guy shot first - the guy who kept his cool had a big advantage, according to this treatise.

Mike,

This goes back to the inner control thing I was getting at.

Also the method of shooting, according to this program was often from the hip, almost always with one hand and rarely involved using the open sites if I remember correctly.

[MikeK]

but you always have the fallback of simple, simple, simple at least saving your a$$ in a pinch

And you can also look at the higher road responses as the fallback or the goto for when the simple low road responses don't work.

Great questions Bill, I already have most of an answer for myself for #2 but the other ones will have me going for a few weeks or months at least.

I can't wait to hear what Rich learns at summer camp. (Dang, The old Alan Sherman song Camp Granada just popped into my head.)

[MikeK]

Jim,
I'd love to hear more about how WC handles this. Compared to most karate don't you start off doing some more higher level, more refined work WRT sensitivity and technique? Does WC even have a low road?
Mike

WWT is a really fun show.

[Bill Glasheen]

Jim

I've really been enjoying some of your posts and musings on this thread.

There was some discussion about the fellow who stayed 'in control' and didn't 'rush it' most often prevailing,

The firearms instructor that works with Rich and I agrees with this assessment, and teaches it. In some of the training courses I've taken with him, I've found that rushing the shot(s) in my scenarios was my biggest enemy.

Have you noticed on tests how some students just burn right through their kata when they get stressed, with little attention to detail or power? That seems to be associated with a whole host of other issues like raising of the center of gravity, shorter movements, loss of power due to internal resistance in movement, etc.

- Bill

[MikeK]

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

I don't follow that saying but I sure like it.

[Bill Glasheen]

Funny how I just edited my last post as you were posting, and my commentary about karate tests mirror what you just posted.

Part of what you lose under high neurohormonal stimulation is the ability to tense muscles selectively. When the biceps are contracting at the same time as the triceps, the punch just doesn't go out as fast.

You really see people hose this up in Kanchin and Sanseiryu. You lose kata "elasticity" or the "mochi" that the Okinawans talk about.

Firing a gun is very similar. You need to squeeze the trigger while letting the rest of the arm and hand relax so you don't jerk the gun when you fire and you let the gun properly recoil during bullet travel through the barrel as it was designed to do.

- Bill

[Stryke]

Part of what you lose under high neurohormonal stimulation is the ability to tense muscles selectively. When the biceps are contracting at the same time as the triceps, the punch just doesn't go out as fast.

from experience I havent seen this , all the fights Ive witnessed people tend to go at it with a hell of a lot of speed and agression , In fact I`d consider it one of the benifits of the low road . Firing a punch is very low road , firing a gun probably isnt .

[Bill Glasheen]

Would you say that has something to do with the type of punch thrown?

Some folks I've seen tend to do fine with this; others don't.

If you're talking about hooking punches with lots of angular momentum, then maybe so. What I see in kata assessment when folks get tense is that their movements tend to shorten, and some movements lose speed. Perhaps these are the movements that involve more complex motor coordination.

A straight thrust - a REALLY straight thrust - IMO is a lot like a golf swing. You're constantly tweaking it to get it right.

I agree with the aggression. And perhaps some of the "speed" has to do with the number of strikes thrown as opposed to how fast any one strike is. Sheer aggression can lead to a relentless pursuit of the victim.

- Bill

[JimHawkins]

Jim,
I'd love to hear more about how WC handles this. Compared to most karate don't you start off doing some more higher level, more refined work WRT sensitivity and technique? Does WC even have a low road?

Mike,

Not exactly sure what you're asking here.

I'm certain there is a low road in anything involving simple striking moves.

[Stryke]

agree with the aggression. And perhaps some of the "speed" has to do with the number of strikes thrown as opposed to how fast any one strike is.

Nah Im talking real speed here , And circular strikes mainly , I punch faster with a little rush . I`m sure most folks that have seen a real fight would agree .

Or maybe it`s true New Zalanders are a race of super athletes , I`m prepared to agree with that

What I see in kata assessment when folks get tense is that their movements tend to shorten, and some movements lose speed. Perhaps these are the movements that involve more complex motor coordination.

This I agree with , I beleive this is a symptom of trying to engage the concious brain while under the dump . It`s a lack of understanding perhaps , teaching to perform rather than practice .

My method for performing kata is to concentrate on the feeling , not get technical and let it fly with powe and aggression , this is under pressure and for performing , not for practice .

I see the opposite when it comes to sparing or fighting , those who go with the agression go beter , and faster , those that engage concious thought seem to freeze . Agression and harnessing seems to be the initial key .

[MikeK]

I don't think low road equals agression and higher road is less so. On some people a low road response may be to turtle or go fetal when faced with an attack, others it may be to attack the attack.

Speed alone isn't the end all though it helps. I've seen enough fights where the combatants threw more punches than I could count, they rarely landed and those that did were by sheer luck.


Jim, I don't know what I was asking either. If I figure it out I'll ask it again.

[Bill Glasheen]

New Zelanders a race of pure athetes? Must have been those Celts that made their way down there.

The concious brain (cerebrum) is definitely going to result in slower and less efficient movement than the programmed brain (cerebellum). When you have to think about typing on a keyboard, your thoughts about typing are likely to slow you down vs. having it programmed, streamlined, and then just doing it as an intent rather than a series of actions.

My method for performing kata is to concentrate on the feeling , not get technical and let it fly with powe and aggression , this is under pressure and for performing , not for practice .

And this shows a fairly high level of programming (synaptic formation) on your part, and in the right part(s) of the brain.

What sometimes fascinates me is studying how certain "martial geniuses" I know function. I believe it's probably a lot like a language. If it gets programmed in one part of the brain it's a "first language" without accent, and if it's programmed in another part (perhaps later in life), it'll never be more than a second language that requires thinking and mental translation to make happen. What makes a Bobby Campbell move and fight so intuitively (other than starting early and being gifted) whereas others view the activity as something separate from themselves?

I believe there are clues, and taking advantage of this IMO will bring better success to this high road part of the equation. One such example is how the use of games and music are helpful in teaching languages. Is "emotional content" more than a B-rate movie buzz phrase? Is it more than caffeine in the thrust? Who knows?

- Bill

[cxt]

Interesting topic.

A good bit of martial arts training lies in the "re-training" of certain "natural" response.

In fact it a case could be made for many martial arts techniques working to best when used vs the "natural" (read as untrained) responses of people.

Takes quite a bit of training to know at the "instinctive" level that "proper" response to a given lock is NOT to try and pull back--but its to close the gap and go with the lock faster then the person using it can acomplish the technique.

It takes quite a bit of training to "get" at the gut level that the "natural" response may well be the worst thing you can do.

In some of the techniques of goju--we actually practice a counter to the counter--and at advanced levels a counter to THAT.

(Kind of funny to watch guys work it)

[RA Miller]

This subject derailed, and in a way I'm sorry. There was good stuff here.
So I'll just take it over.

The "low road" is your body's autonomic responses to pain, fear and surprise- the flinch you are familiar with and the panicked, thrashing flailing of a monkey in the jaws of a leopard you may have seen on TV.

First fallacy: "That won't happen to me, I'm trained."

Shattering this first fallacy is a worthy mission. It is important to understand that no matter how hard you train or who you have defeated in the ring or how many blocks of ice you can break it is not the same as being eaten alive by a predator. The "low road" is real. It does happen, it will happen. It will do things to your mind and senses and body. Ignoring it will not change it.

The "high road" is when your conscious mind stays in control. It doesn't need to be conscious control- a state very similar to Mushin happens in well trained and experienced people. The difference you see is that it is not the flailing of a terrified monkey but decisions. Skilled or unskilled, some clumsy some elegant and deadly but clearly decisive and conscious action.

Which is the second fallacy: "You can't stay on the high road in real life."

You can. I have to, and so does every LEO who is responsible for every round and every injury to every subject and bystander. So does every infantryman working under the rules of engagement.

How do you access the high road? That's the question. In many, many engagements especially officers called to a scene or military on the offense, there is an element of discretionary time. There is time for the breathing techniques and centering and positive visualization.

You can go into the high road if you can look around and see your comrades, acknowledge your mission or your family- your sense of purpose. The minute you say or think, "I am doing this for a reason." You have decided and are no longer a screaming monkey.

And lastly, the one that works when you are surprised and alone- experience. I've done this before. I've been here, moth*r #####*r, come get some. I've stood with blood dripping from my face thinking, "I've taken more damage than this in class. I've been hurt worse by my friends. MY WIFE HITS HARDER THAN YOU!"

You cross that line and all that training, the elegant, high-road, efficient, strategic, human training is suddenly there and suddenly the threat is the screaming monkey. And you are the leopard.

Rory