What You Won't See on the Evening News

[Bill Glasheen]

IEDs (Improvised Explosive Devices) and random ambushes are the biggest risk to security for the Americans attempting to finish the job they started in Iraq. But as Iraqis get more and more involved in the defense of and running of their country, the ability to separate friend from foe becomes a more efficient and productive process. And once you know about the activities of the foe...

The following link is to a 3-minute film from a C130 gunship flying 2.5 miles above the activity of some insurgents. These insurgents were preparing to attack an oncoming U.S. convoy, and had no idea someone was watching them from afar. The gunship sports a 40 mm automatic cannon which apparently has pinpoint accuracy even at this distance. Moreover, this entire episode happened in the dead of night.

You never know who's watching.

The film has sound.

- Bill

[Scott Danziger]

I was nervous just watching this. Great job by the crew! It's good to see the bad guys getting it for a change.

What I really liked was an insight to how these guys have been setting up these ambushes.

God bless our troops!!!

[f.Channell]

After the guy was wounded and crawling away on the ground why did they shoot him into pieces? He appeared to no longer be a threat. Naturally I'd rather see 100 of those guys killed than one American soldier.
I would think they would take him as a prisoner and question him. Maybe find a few other guys with the same plan.

F.

[Bill Glasheen]

After the guy was wounded and crawling away on the ground why did they shoot him into pieces? He appeared to no longer be a threat.

Good question, Fred. My answer would be that it depends upon the objective of the mission, the circumstances surrounding the battle, and the orders given.

For example... If you are in special forces and they tell you to go out and kill Mr. XYZ bad guy, your job is to kill him without question. You do not second guess. You do not take prisoners. You make it into special forces - an elite group with a very different mindset - because a) you have no problem following orders, and b) you have no problem killing someone when told to do so by a superior officer.

It wasn't really clear at the time that there were or were not more bad guys in the vehicles. I only counted two until the shooting started. Then a third appeared. And they may not have wanted any of these folks going back to "home base" talking about what tactics were used against them (pretty sneaky...), nor were they probably equipped to land the C130 out there in the middle of nowhere and take prisoners without a backup. Furthermore, this guy could have crawled back into his vehicle to get an anti-aircraft weapon.

And... 9mm bullets are used to wound (tie up 3 with one wounded enemy) and to take prisoners. 40 mm rips you up from stem to stern. Truth be told, that was a mercy killing. That fellow would not have lasted long.

Once you make it clear that your objective is to kill Americans for the sake of doing just that, as far as I am concerned your fate is sealed. At least he'll be enjoying his virgins in the afterlife...

- Bill

[CANDANeh]

My understanding is this took place from a fixed wing aircraft.
Did a search on 130 gunships and am I right in these are the canons used to complet the mission?
Professional work by the crew and lack of emotion actually impressed me as they did the job asked of them. How they actually felt is only in thier minds and only if all of us had such ability to deal with our work stresses.
http://www.tankopoly.com/his/pic/ac130e.jpg

[TSDguy]

Did a search on 130 gunships and am I right in these are the canons used to complet the mission?

They have 105mm howitzers and also several mini guns if I remember correctly.

[Bill Glasheen]

Not exactly something you could land in the Iraqi desert in the middle of the night...

- Bill

[f.Channell]

Watching the video I assumed it was a helicopter they fired from.
amazing to have that accuracy from a moving aircraft over 2 miles away.
After watching that I have to say you have to be pretty foolish to be a terrorist.

F.

[-Metablade-]

The taking of human life in any circumstance is a serious and grim endeavor indeed.

We in the West should also remember, that In the eyes of an enemy, "we" are the "bad guys", which tends to make culturally based moral justifications in any war an exercise in delusional thinking depending on which "side" one is on.

In the end, the result is simply the act of killing.

We have witnessed images of the deaths of three fellow human beings, yes, the "enemy", but human beings none the less, and for what?

I remind any of you that have honor,
Of wherein lies the honor of engaging in scenes of death for our petty amusement?

[Bill Glasheen]

We in the West should also remember, that In the eyes of an enemy, "we" are the "bad guys" ...

"Bad guys" is a convenient expression. I would hope it's obvious to all that it's a relative term from a specific perspective. And my perspective is what it is. I do not apologize for my ethnicity, my nationality, my Jeffersonian beliefs, or my abundant concern for the health and welfare of the troops that represent my country. But that's me...

I remind any of you that have honor,
Of wherein lies the honor of engaging in scenes of death for our petty amusement?

This is not an Art forum; it is a Martial Arts forum. If dealing with the topic of death is a problem, I suggest people not visit this or other forums on the Uechi Ryu website.

I absolutely feel dealing with the topic of death and killing is necessary to understand an art such as Uechi Ryu. While Sport Karate, Kid's Karate, Karate for Health & Fitness, and other venues have sprung from Kanbun's art, we must remember that this body of knowledge came from turn-of-the-century Fuzhou, China. Kanbun's style was also the methods of the Boxers who used these techniques and methods for guerilla fighting. They were also methods used to kill when one was the target of killing.

I highly recommend people read Grossman's book On Killing. It will shed very serious light on the subject of this thread. Once you finish that book, you will have a greater appreciation for the viewing of this video. Grossman speaks to what is seen here on many levels. More and more, I am encouraging all my students to read his and others' works that deal with the psychophysiological aspects of fighting, combat, law enforcement, and killing. (I may make it required reading in my class for all dans.)

I presented this video in an apolitical fashion. I suggest that part of what may be an issue here are the politics behind what is seen in the video. But it is what it is. People will have their own reactions to the historical background; that does not need to be a topic of this thread. If you wish to discuss it more along those lines, I highly recommend you take it to Panther's forum. He specializes in contemporary politics.

Finally... I find this neither petty nor amusing. It's a very serious topic. Amusing comments are made from time to time to keep the brain from dwelling on what can drag us down. (Read Grossman...)

- Bill

[-Metablade-]

I do not apologize for my ethnicity, my nationality, my Jeffersonian beliefs, or my abundant concern for the health and welfare of the troops that represent my country. But that's me...

Then how about for participation of violence desensitization and for egregious trivialization of death?
I don't think anyone is questioning your patriotism, ethnicity, or nationality here,
But rather, the motives for posting images of three human beings being ground into hamburger. Was it really from the abundant concern for the health and welfare of the troops that represent your country?

Anyone who has had the burden for carrying out the terrible tasks of war in their many interactions knows exactly what I mean.

This is not an Art forum; it is a Martial Arts forum. If dealing with the topic of death is a problem, I suggest people not visit this or other forums on the Uechi Ryu website.

Why No...No, that's not a knee jerk reaction at all....

What is this, the Cobra-Kai?

I presented this video in an apolitical fashion.

Meta: So you wrote.
Yet, knowing the usual personalities that participate in this forum, what did you think would be the reaction to it?

But it is what it is.

Meta: Right. My point exactly. It's three people getting killed horribly. It makes no difference if it's an Iraq war clip or from the streets of New York. No matter how you slice it, it's offensive.

People will have their own reactions to the historical background; that does not need to be a topic of this thread. If you wish to discuss it more along those lines, I highly recommend you take it to Panther's forum. He specializes in contemporary politics.

Meta: It is your venue, so you are free to dispense with those who disagree with you in that fashion if you so desire.

Finally... I find this neither petty nor amusing. It's a very serious topic. Amusing comments are made from time to time to keep the brain from dwelling on what can drag us down.
- Bill

Meta: Sounds like apologetics, and I am not convinced.
In any event, To keep the thread on "topic",...
I'll not add futher suffering to your readers on the matter with my ramblings.

[TSDguy]

Meta: Right. My point exactly. It's three people getting killed horribly. It makes no difference if it's an Iraq war clip or from the streets of New York. No matter how you slice it, it's offensive.

We post those here too, and I'm glad. Shootings, security camera footage, war footage, dog attacks... they're all here. One that REALLY sticks out in my mind was a post by Darren Laur showing a security camera video of a woman enduring the most savage beating I've ever seen, I assume to death. As a result of that video, I'm now extremely concious of who's behind me when I unlock the front door to my apartment complex.

So, ya, in one sense they're all offensive, but Bill pretty much got it right when he said if people are that offended by violence a collection of forums that start off with "Self Defense Realities" isn't where they should be. Don't click the videos if you don't want Meta, but I think you should.

[Scott Danziger]

Just a short note on C-130's. They most surely can land in the desert and use very little room to boot. I took off on one on a dirt strip in what we called "downrange" Fort Carson Colorado and landed on a dried out lake in the Mohave desert.

Besides the gunship version in the video there are many versions of this aircraft. Most notably airborne troop carriers. They also do low altitude cargo drops. Very Versatile and have been in the Airforce for many many years.

Without getting into the politics of "violence" in the video. the enemy preparing the ambush are just that, the enemy. Should they have been let go what is to stop them from coming back tomorrow - a little more wiser?

If you want to see some really violent footage go to youtube.com and type in Iraq War for a search.

Oh and by the way... in case you were wondering... I have been against this asinine war since before we went in. Imagine if you will, we sent HALF the troops we sent to Iraq to Afghanistan, think we would have had a chance to get the goat smelling muther's who actually attacked us?

Sorry - had to rant.

[nosib]

"after the guy was wounded and crawling away on the ground
why did they shoot him into pieces?"

BECAUSE THEY COULD!!!
Mission- destroy the enemy!
Not wound the enemy so he can crawl off and heal up
and return in the future to kill.
Not wound the enemy so he can crawl off and heal up
and get frisky with ole burka head and squirt out more
potential future killers.

Remove with extreme prejudice.
Leave no DNA evidence.
Keep your buddies alive.
Survive so that you may return home to what really matters.

ooo RAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cxt]

I find it odd that people would choose to view the scene as being somehow "for fun."

I see it as a "real time' look at the situation we are facing.

Groups of murderers that use the cover of night to set up roadside bombs and ambushs for anyone that happens along.

I guess that we all bring our own personal preconceptions when watching such things.

I was impressed at the level of the restraint showed by the crew---the number of steps that they went thu BEFORE they fired.

Also kinda concerned me, I probably would have opend up when I watched them plant the first weapon.
If they have to go thu that much "red tape" prior to taking action then what happens in a faster paced situation?