Bill,
With your vast knowledge of the human body. Why not put together a manual of Uechi ryu fundamental Anatomy. Its something I have always wanted to do. I am just a novice when it comes to anatomy, but have some knowledge about where to srike someone. Most of it of course come from my Jujutsu instructors. Anatomy in our school of jujutsu is mandaory. We even had to carry the book Greys anatomy to class. Jujutsu does not rely on strikes as the end all. However, Uechi does and I see no one more qualified than you my friend. Just a suggestion to a friend from a friend.
Anatomy
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Sal
I appreciate the vote of confidence - especially from someone such as you. What you speak of is a complex field with a need for knowledge of both Eastern (for anthropologic purposes) and Western medicine.
However... I am now in the process of planning the format for my first martial arts book. I'm thinking more along the lines of a book edited by me with multiple contributors from various specialties. There are a few medical texts I have which follow that kind of format.
Suggestions for topics always appreciated, as are volunteers for chapter contributions.
For the time being, I'm just going to start writing on a few topics and see how things come together.
- Bill
I appreciate the vote of confidence - especially from someone such as you. What you speak of is a complex field with a need for knowledge of both Eastern (for anthropologic purposes) and Western medicine.
However... I am now in the process of planning the format for my first martial arts book. I'm thinking more along the lines of a book edited by me with multiple contributors from various specialties. There are a few medical texts I have which follow that kind of format.
Suggestions for topics always appreciated, as are volunteers for chapter contributions.
For the time being, I'm just going to start writing on a few topics and see how things come together.- Bill
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Willy
Call it marketing. 
Coronal suture
Alright Bill,
So I could not persuade you to start an anatomy book at this time. Then I would love to share some possible targets with you. Starting with the Coronal Suture. This is the first of many target area I would like to discuss. What I am looking for is :
1.Which weapons you would use to attack this area.
2.The angle of attack( path you would take to attack the target
3.Amount of pressure it would take to cause damage.
4.A successful strike could and would cause -death, pain, unconsiousness, paralization, sight lost(temporary or permanent). ETC.
If its possible Bill I will give you a target area every week, so please give me some feed back.
Thanks
So I could not persuade you to start an anatomy book at this time. Then I would love to share some possible targets with you. Starting with the Coronal Suture. This is the first of many target area I would like to discuss. What I am looking for is :
1.Which weapons you would use to attack this area.
2.The angle of attack( path you would take to attack the target
3.Amount of pressure it would take to cause damage.
4.A successful strike could and would cause -death, pain, unconsiousness, paralization, sight lost(temporary or permanent). ETC.
If its possible Bill I will give you a target area every week, so please give me some feed back.
Thanks
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Willy
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I don't think you're far off the mark, Willy. Good humor often has an element of truth running through it.
Let me ponder this a bit, Sal, before I get back with you. This one takes an "out of the box" approach to handle - as you well know.
For the uninitiated, the coronal suture is the natural "crack" that goes laterally across the top of the skull. It separates the frontal bone (around the forehead) from the parietal bone (the big chunk of skull on the top/back of the skull).
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- Bill
Let me ponder this a bit, Sal, before I get back with you. This one takes an "out of the box" approach to handle - as you well know.
For the uninitiated, the coronal suture is the natural "crack" that goes laterally across the top of the skull. It separates the frontal bone (around the forehead) from the parietal bone (the big chunk of skull on the top/back of the skull).
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- Bill
Not sure that I would attack the coronal suture, except with, perhaps, a brick wall. It isn't the forehead, which will get you the hardest bone in the head and not a great place to strike, but pretty darned close. Muy Thai people attack the vertex of the head at times, as with a downward elbow, but elbows aren't unbreakable, and there are weaker targets. Why not, if coming from the side, strike either the temple (if using a very solid weapon such as an elbow) or the jaw over the muscle (padded, lends itself well to KO's)? Why not, if coming from above/the back of the person (either from behind or because they're leaning forward) go for the back of the upper c spine or the GB-20 space at the base of the skull just to the sides of the paraspinal muscles?
--Ian
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
There's probably an assumption that the seam is weak. Actually it's there to help the skull grow. Once the head is fully grown, those seams fuse rather nicely.
If you insist on trying to split things there, I would think downward from the side with a blunt object might do. In using my body to flick the sai, I've always been impressed with the nature of force that I can deliver.
As for amount of force... I would give you an unconventional answer. It isn't so much the level of force as the spectrum of the impulse that would cause things to crack there. You'd want to hit there with something that doesn't give - an impulse with lots of high frequency content. If I was a fellow like you, Sal, it would involve perhaps heaving someone head first into a brick wall. That might do it. Such an unforgiving object would not filter out the high frequency content of the energy spectrum.
Otherwise... I think Willy and Ian about have it. There are other more tempting targets, so I wouldn't be thinking that seam as something worth exploiting. Even in a young person where the plates hadn't sealed, I would view the flexible seam as something with "give" that would prevent the skull from shattering. So I don't see it as a practical target.
Then again, there's always this approach...
- Bill
If you insist on trying to split things there, I would think downward from the side with a blunt object might do. In using my body to flick the sai, I've always been impressed with the nature of force that I can deliver.
As for amount of force... I would give you an unconventional answer. It isn't so much the level of force as the spectrum of the impulse that would cause things to crack there. You'd want to hit there with something that doesn't give - an impulse with lots of high frequency content. If I was a fellow like you, Sal, it would involve perhaps heaving someone head first into a brick wall. That might do it. Such an unforgiving object would not filter out the high frequency content of the energy spectrum.
Otherwise... I think Willy and Ian about have it. There are other more tempting targets, so I wouldn't be thinking that seam as something worth exploiting. Even in a young person where the plates hadn't sealed, I would view the flexible seam as something with "give" that would prevent the skull from shattering. So I don't see it as a practical target.
Then again, there's always this approach...
- Bill
coronal suture.....(C.S.)
Bill, is the C.S. the weakest part of that region of the skull? If I was able to penetrate this area. What type of damage would my opponent experience. possible hemorrhage, death, sweeling.unconsciousness? I know that there are easier targets...eyes,ears,throat, etc.....I think we all know about the easy targets. I want to know about the more difficult areas. I am not going kyusho crazy here. I just believe that a scientific approach to attacking the human body should be studied. Starting with myself. Anything you can add would be greatly appreciated.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I understand where you are coming from, Sal.
Understanding that the seam is there in the first place is useful. Often when you are in a fight with an uncooperative opponent, an opportunity presents itself. Some opportunities are better than others. Smart fighters don't give you any of the good ones, so you need to take what is available.
My thought is that if you're interested in killing someone, then this is a viable target area, albeit difficult and messy. It's going to take a whole-body, downward hammer strike (hitting with hammer fist or ulna) downward elbow strike, or better yet the advantage given with a hard striking surface or leverage (meaning a weapon). If it's empty handed, we're talking about a strong fighter. Ideally you are to the side of the individual, and their head is erect and below your shoulders (down on their knees perhaps). This will only be a path of lower resistance when nothing else presents itself. It could happen in a fight when the person is "down" but not out.
I don't see an elegant "lights out" KOs possible with this. I think when you hit hard here, there will be serious, diffuse damage to the brain, and quite possiby to the neck as well. Swelling? Yes. Bleeding? If you hit hard enough to splatter the gray matter. That means hitting really, really hard.
Yes, it's been done I'm sure by a housewife hitting husband over the head with a Louisville Slugger. There you have leverage, reach, a hard hitting surface, the benefit of gravity, and mindset (attitude
).
- Bill
Understanding that the seam is there in the first place is useful. Often when you are in a fight with an uncooperative opponent, an opportunity presents itself. Some opportunities are better than others. Smart fighters don't give you any of the good ones, so you need to take what is available.
My thought is that if you're interested in killing someone, then this is a viable target area, albeit difficult and messy. It's going to take a whole-body, downward hammer strike (hitting with hammer fist or ulna) downward elbow strike, or better yet the advantage given with a hard striking surface or leverage (meaning a weapon). If it's empty handed, we're talking about a strong fighter. Ideally you are to the side of the individual, and their head is erect and below your shoulders (down on their knees perhaps). This will only be a path of lower resistance when nothing else presents itself. It could happen in a fight when the person is "down" but not out.
I don't see an elegant "lights out" KOs possible with this. I think when you hit hard here, there will be serious, diffuse damage to the brain, and quite possiby to the neck as well. Swelling? Yes. Bleeding? If you hit hard enough to splatter the gray matter. That means hitting really, really hard.
Yes, it's been done I'm sure by a housewife hitting husband over the head with a Louisville Slugger. There you have leverage, reach, a hard hitting surface, the benefit of gravity, and mindset (attitude
).- Bill
I would actually forget the suture is there.
I'm not a trauma doc but I've seen dozens of CT scans with skull fractures, none of which involved this suture. The bones are very nicely woven together and thick there. There are many better ways to fracture the skull if that is your goal. It is easier to do so from the side because at the temple the bone is thinner and concave in, or at least flat. Most of the rest of the cranium is concave out, and like a bird's egg, its made that way to resist blunt or penetrating trauma. Most of the fractures I saw were depressions of the sides of the skull.
Certainly anyone who can hit with enough force to separate the suture can end a fight by hitting anywhere in the head or neck, which means there's no advantage to going for this target. This is like car accident force, and it might set you up for excessive force charges, especially since you'd probably be using a blunt weapon to do the actual hitting. You can KO someone with far less force by hitting the head to spin it to the side, back and up, or a combination, and if you're in a true life or death situation, you can fracture the skull more easily coming from the side at the temple or even the parietal bones.
One guarantee is that this much force will jostle the head so much that there will be a concussion, depressed fracture with bleeding, coup or contre coup injury (brain sloshing into area of strike and then rebounding into opposite side) or diffuse brain injury or some combination of these, in almost all cases. This is just the $10 way of saying that you hit someone in the head with a bat or something and they'll be pretty messed up--no shocker.
I'm not a trauma doc but I've seen dozens of CT scans with skull fractures, none of which involved this suture. The bones are very nicely woven together and thick there. There are many better ways to fracture the skull if that is your goal. It is easier to do so from the side because at the temple the bone is thinner and concave in, or at least flat. Most of the rest of the cranium is concave out, and like a bird's egg, its made that way to resist blunt or penetrating trauma. Most of the fractures I saw were depressions of the sides of the skull.
Certainly anyone who can hit with enough force to separate the suture can end a fight by hitting anywhere in the head or neck, which means there's no advantage to going for this target. This is like car accident force, and it might set you up for excessive force charges, especially since you'd probably be using a blunt weapon to do the actual hitting. You can KO someone with far less force by hitting the head to spin it to the side, back and up, or a combination, and if you're in a true life or death situation, you can fracture the skull more easily coming from the side at the temple or even the parietal bones.
One guarantee is that this much force will jostle the head so much that there will be a concussion, depressed fracture with bleeding, coup or contre coup injury (brain sloshing into area of strike and then rebounding into opposite side) or diffuse brain injury or some combination of these, in almost all cases. This is just the $10 way of saying that you hit someone in the head with a bat or something and they'll be pretty messed up--no shocker.
--Ian
Coronal suture.....
Bill, could this be the target in the kata seisan? When your attacker goes for the single/double leg take down. You strike with the knee followed by shokens. Do you see this as viable, or is the angle wrong. It is not a downward angle, but you could generate enough power from you legs to do the trick. What do you think? Also, the knee vs. the coronal suture which would you give the advantage to. I am not interested in killing people, or overkill. I just think that martial artists as a whole should have some knowledge of the human body. The more I know about the body, and how it works. The less I want to strike someone. Striking someone is a very serious action, and the more I learn about how delicate this vehicle is. The more my respect grows for my fellow man. I think being over skilled prevents over kill. Thanks for the time,and if this is taking you away from your forum duties. We could continue this through personal e mails
thanks
thanks
Adam,
Even with a complete list of pressure points you'd still need instruction on how to use them and what the effects of activating them are. And don't forget that the skin is a wonderful "pressure point". I learned some very painful "crab bites" from a Philippines SF guy and while doing CDT.
Even with a complete list of pressure points you'd still need instruction on how to use them and what the effects of activating them are. And don't forget that the skin is a wonderful "pressure point". I learned some very painful "crab bites" from a Philippines SF guy and while doing CDT.
I was dreaming of the past...
