Ding Dong.. Look who's running

[benzocaine]

Like we never expected this...

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.js ... &aid=66058

[Bill Glasheen]

Indeed. This was expected for quite a while. But truth be told, folks have been "watching" Hillary way back when her husband ran against George HW Bush.

Do not underestimate "team Clinton." Newt Gingrich himself was talking about how "formidable" the Clintons are in politics. Some people have a nack for this stuff - irrespective of their views and their < ahem > personal habits.

Love her or hate her, Hillary has come across lately as the most level-headed of all the "Democratic hopefuls." She's neither hawk nor dove - she's a pragmatist. She says what she thinks, and then isn't afraid to say she was wrong later on. She avoids gratuitous bashing - except when it's necessary for the party to circle the wagons and play politics.

Ultimately what I see, Ben, is the Democrats losing in 2008. That's my thinking now anyhow. But a LOT can change between now and then. And why? I think the various factions that make up the party are going to rip it apart in 2008 the way they did in 1968. A great recent example is Connecticut this year with Lieberman. They pleased the party faithful by booting Lieberman in the primaries, but ended up getting spanked in a general election to... Lieberman as an independent.

But Republicans have a full year to screw themselves over just as royally.

Hillary right now is the frontrunner. She'll be competitive against most anyone that the Republicans can run. But ultimately she's still a polarizing figure. It's been hard for her to shake that penchant of hers to condescend women who aren't feminists. That may play well in the big cities, but won't win you too many votes in Middle America.

- Bill

[Topos]

Bill,


Your are correct, " she's a pragmatist," But, she has so far been
given a free pass from our so-called "free press". No hard question from that David Gregory. An important question she has so far refused, among many, is why she will not release her Senior Thesis at Wellsley College. It is rumored to be a pro-Marxist vision of the US. The country-club republicans who are happy to play foot stools to the Democrat Party are useless as ------ on a ------- [fill in with appropriate words].

Where are the Conservative activistists who will obtain this important document. The NY Times should champion another leak of secreted documents. Perhaps we shoud commandeer one Marxisit-Leninist battle cry: "What do you have to lose, your freedom?"

Will there be a book whose cover has a cross hair over Hillary's face as was done with President Bush? I heard no catterwalling from the 'DRIVE BY MEDIA' [GRIN]. Guess condemnation of discusting expression of hatred depends upon whom it is aimed.

Republican politicians are week-kneed wimps. Where are a Ronald Regan or Harry Truman now that the Country needs them. We have been so lucky for the last 200+ years. But, as is shown in, say, the HBO series ROME, a republic is so easy to loose, never to rise again.


Happy thoughts to all.

[IJ]

"Republican politicians are week-kneed wimps."

Wow, I have not been a fan (though I like McCain) but I've never thought of them as weak kneed. They've not been hesitant to distribute their colorful terms to brand democrats as unpatriotic or to question their motivations, or leak a CIA agents identity, whatever. Bush, for example--interpretting the Constitution rather flexibly, invading Iraq, claiming a mandate from God for his thin margins of victories? That's more temerity than it is a symptom of weak knees.

[benzocaine]

Ultimately what I see, Ben, is the Democrats losing in 2008. That's my thinking now anyhow. But a LOT can change between now and then. And why? I think the various factions that make up the party are going to rip it apart in 2008 the way they did in 1968.

I agree that the democrats will lose.. and I aree with the reasoning you put forth. The Democratic party is all over the place as far as any strong stance goes, on any one issue. There isn't a real strong bond that I can discern other than the premise that republicans are greedy, war mongering, corporate loving, little guy hating, back door dealing , suit and tie thugs.

[Valkenar]

She'll be competitive against most anyone that the Republicans can run. But ultimately she's still a polarizing figure. It's been hard for her to shake that penchant of hers to condescend women who aren't feminists.

I don't think she will be competetive at all. Between people who hate her for what she's actually done and people who wouldn't vote for a woman on general principle, there's virtually no chance.

I think the democratic party is screwed. The two candidates most popular in their own party are pretty much totally unelectable. And besides, we're talking about the Democrats, who couldn't even oust worst-president-ever-material George W Bush. At this point, the Republicans could exhume Nixon and, with a little help from Frank Oz, run a victorious campaign.

[mhosea]

Love her or hate her, Hillary has come across lately as the most level-headed of all the "Democratic hopefuls." She's neither hawk nor dove - she's a pragmatist. She says what she thinks, and then isn't afraid to say she was wrong later on. She avoids gratuitous bashing - except when it's necessary for the party to circle the wagons and play politics.

They are so good at politics that it's hard to take all this at face value.

As democrats go (I'm not one), I have developed a positive opinion of Bill Richardson over the years. He's always come across to me as a sincere pragmatist, never a bomb thrower that I can recall, always calm and rational. But since I like him, as I do Lieberman, I would guess that he has no chance at getting the democratic nomination. I'm expecting a Hillary nomination, unless she drops out of character and makes a Howard Dean type mistake (i.e., does something that makes her appear memorably "un-presidential").

[mhosea]

I don't think she will be competetive at all. Between people who hate her for what she's actually done and people who wouldn't vote for a woman on general principle, there's virtually no chance.

Ah, a ray of hope from my perspective.

[Bill Glasheen]

I'm expecting a Hillary nomination, unless she drops out of character and makes a Howard Dean type mistake (i.e., does something that makes her appear memorably "un-presidential").

It really wouldn't be "out of character" by any means for Hillary to say something un-presidential.

I'm not sitting here as some little woman 'standing by my man' like Tammy Wynette.

You know, I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was fulfill my profession

And all you have to do is ask Edwin Muskie or Gary Hart how easy it is to go from top of your game to "history" in one false move. Howard Dean was just the latest.

The real issue isn't saying something un-presidential per se. The issue is saying such a thing in a way that is completely in character. And trust me, there's no shortage of references out there to point towards Hillary's more unfortunate experiences in life.

Hillary Rodham Clinton controversies

At the end of the day, it will all be fascinating - in a morbid kind of way.

- Bill

[Valkenar]

Yeah, your quotes highlight why I think she doesn't stand a chance. There are too many people out there who think women should be doormats and just stand by their men. To me, her statement about not just sitting there like Tammy Wynette is apt, but to a lot of people it's shocking that a woman would have the temerity to suggest that standing by your man is anything other than the proper role for women. Now pointing fingers at Tammy Wynette personally is a bit rude, so it's right that she apologized for that, but if she had substituted "as Tammy Wynette's song says" then it would be on point.

Like I said, Hillary hasn't got a chance.

Thanks for posting that link though, I had been looking for a good list of reasons that people hate Hillary. I've never quite understood the depth of antipathy there is for her. It would be easy to gather from the kinds of insults directed at her that a lot of it is just feeling threatened, but I don't think that's the only reason.

So what is the reason? I know there's a lot (or at least a decent number) of people on these forums who really despise her. Where is that coming from? What particularly makes you hate her, beyond just thinking that she'd make for a president you don't want?

[mhosea]

Where is that coming from?

I don't think there has to be any one reason. Most first ladies in recent memory have tried to play a unifying, humanitarian role. In the beginning Hillary was a politically active first lady on a divisive issue. Then the travelgate and filegate scandals painted her as a ruthless and slippery character. She doesn't seem that way now, but everyone has to decide for themselves whether the old impressions were wrong or whether her current persona is just a good act.

[Bill Glasheen]

What particularly makes you hate her, beyond just thinking that she'd make for a president you don't want?

I won't speak for others. But I don't hate Hillary. In my personal opinion, she's one of the more reasonable sounding of all the Democrats running for office - with any kind of experience. I don't agree with her nanny state attitudes (e.g. "It takes a village"), but I enjoy listening to her. She's obviously a very intelligent and cunning woman.

I don't know what to think of Barak Obama because he's a blank slate. He could be a JFK (charismatic leader), or he could be a Jimmy Carter (nice guy, but...). We just don't know.

There are too many people out there who think women should be doormats and just stand by their men.

I have to chuckle at your comments, Justin. Given the tone of them, I can see that election day 2004 must have frustrated the hell out of you. You really do need to travel more.

FWIW... I haven't gone out with a wallflower in my life. I couldn't because I would never respect one. My present spouse was part of the first generation of female bodybuilders, and is now going to be part of a new healthcare paradigm. (Long story) And I grew up with six sisters - all of whom are professionals today. Their intellectual acumen would easily be a match for Hillary. My mom was valedictorian of her class. She and my dad both got broker's licenses when my dad chose to change careers. They were business partners.

But the difference between Hillary and my sisters or my mom, Justin, is the lack of that chip on the shoulder. The difference between Hillary and my sisters is the lack of an insecurity streak which would force them to make statements that are condescending to women who choose to live life in a different manner. That's the key word, Justin.

It's arrogant and elitist to think that your view of how the world should be is the only valid view. Our strength as a country is the diversity of opinions, values, and cultural traditions. A politician should never disaparage any group - intentionally or otherwise. Hillary's problem is that she keeps doing that.

I do as well BTW, but I don't ever pretend to be a politician. I'm a scientist.

Everyone makes mistakes; not all learn from them. Hillary appears to learn from hers. Hillary gets into trouble because a politician can't just be right. Her husband Bill understands that - to a fault. They are a better team with Bill as the spokesperson and Hillary as the brain behind the voice.

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

That's why the Gov of NM will pick up the pieces.

It is still very early and the campaign will be very long...and here in DC I'm already tired of reading about it.
-d

[Bruise* Lee]

Well I hope if she gets into The White House there is no more family acting out - I would hate to read in the news that some intern sucked her..... oh ... never mind... pass the cigars

[Bill Glasheen]

And look who's NOT running...

WASHINGTON (Jan. 24) - Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, the Democrats' losing presidential candidate in 2004, does not intend to run again in 2008, a Democratic official said Wednesday.

No surprise there. It's a shame more of the "repeat performers" haven't (yet) followed Kerry's lead.

- Bill