Tree hugger conspiracy?

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benzocaine
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Tree hugger conspiracy?

Post by benzocaine »

Earlier this year while hearing a case involving a man driving on an area designated as an area for protected species, a federal Judge decided it was his job to not "judge" the law but make new ones. When this case should have been about ONE man breaking laws, and punishing the federal Judge did this:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1605849/
Hatteras — A federal judge has put an immediate stop to all beach driving on the Cape Hatteras National Seashore.

In an order filed Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Terrence Boyle said the National Park Service, the Department of Interior and towns along the Cape Hatteras National Seashore need to create an off-road vehicle plan for the beaches
Which is total B.S.
Until that happens, off-road vehicle driving is banned from the Cape Hatteras Lighthouse north to Oregon Inlet and south to Ocracoke.

Cape Hatteras park officials, however, are not enforcing the order while they try to get an interpretation of Boyle's ruling.

Some areas on the beach are closed because of wildlife sanctuaries, which have nothing to do with the order, Seashore Superintendent Mike Murray said. And there are enforceable regulations prohibiting motorists from driving on sand dunes, speeding and driving drunk.
This ruling had many beachgoers upset. There was talk about a potential for a lawsuit by enviromentalist extremists to enforce the Judges ruling.

Well, now that summer is over and 90 percent of the beachgoers are involved in their own lives... not the situation at the beaches, they struck.
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.c ... 8&ran=6874
Environmental groups sue over Cape Hatteras beach driving
By CATHERINE KOZAK, The Virginian-Pilot
© October 19, 2007
Last updated: 9:57 PM


The long-standing controversy over beach driving in Cape Hatteras National Seashore has gotten more loaded with a lawsuit filed in federal court Thursday by two environmental groups.

The Defenders of Wildlife and the National Audubon Society, represented by the Southern Environmental Law Center, contend in the action that the National Park Service has failed to adequately protect resources in the 30,000 acres of the park by allowing off-road vehicle use under an interim management plan.

Beach driving under the plan has dramatically affected sensitive species, the complaint states, and the activity is poorly regulated.

"Specifically, the defendants have continued to allow virtually unfettered ORV use to continue in the seashore all during the summer of 2007," the lawsuit said.

The environmental groups say ORV - which stands for off- road vehicle - mismanagement bears much of the blame for the near disappearance of gull-billed terns and common terns at the seashore. The numbers of black skimmers, least terns, American oystercatchers and piping plovers have also declined dramatically.

An executive order 35 years ago required the park to institute an ORV management plan. The interim plan has been in place since July.

But Jim Keene, president of the North Carolina Beach Buggy Association, said that a team of stakeholders is ready to start negotiations to develop a long-term ORV management plan.

The plaintiffs are members of the negotiated rule-making team, and the third workshop is scheduled for Monday.

"It's very hard for me to understand how they could possibly negotiate in good faith when the stance they've taken is opposed to beach driving," Keene said in a telephone interview. "Why they've done it at this point, I don't know."

Derb Carter, director of the law center's Carolinas office, said Thursday that time is crucial after the abysmal results of the 2007 bird nesting season.

"So unless immediate actions are taken, we could lose those species from the seashore," he said. "We have been waiting for years for the park service to develop a plan."

Carter said the intention of the lawsuit is not to have beach driving banned; it's to address the impact the current plan is having on the seashore's birds, plants and turtles.

It comes after a court ruling in July by U.S. District Judge Terrence Boyle which said that since the park did not have ORV regulations in place, it was a violation to operate a motor vehicle without prior authority.

The park superintendent addressed the judge's concerns in a response but declined to tell rangers to issue tickets to beach drivers.

Of the seashore's 65 miles of beach, about 52 miles are open to drivers, minus temporary or seasonal closures, Keene said. According to the lawsuit, ORV use in 2006 numbered about 2,200 per day. Much of that was in optimal breeding and nesting areas such as Cape Point and Hatteras Spit, he said.

Thursday's complaint did not ask for an injunction that would immediately close the beaches to off-road traffic.

Also Thursday, the environmental groups filed a 60-day notice of intent to sue the park service over what they contend have been violations of the federal Endangered Species Act in the seashore.

Allen Burrus, a Dare County commissioner who is a native of Hatteras village, said the legal action struck him as a "ploy."

"I think their motives are to try to stop the whole negotiated rule-making process," he said. "I think they'd rather push them in court. It makes it difficult for us sitting at the table to trust them."

Cape Hatteras National Seashore Superintendent Mike Murray was unavailable for comment Thursday, his assistant Cyndy Holda said.

But Holda, the park's community liaison, said the park service intends to continue with the development of the long-term ORV management plan through the negotiated rule-making process.

"This is just one of the many wrinkles in this issue," she said. "We expected a few bumps in the road. It's unfortunate in the timing of this. But we will keep moving the process forward."
benzocaine
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Shameless in their actions

Post by benzocaine »

The S.E.L.C Southern Enviromental Law Center which includes theDefenders of the Wildlife organizationand the Audobon society, are doing all they can to essentially close down the Cape Hatteras National Seashore to the greater Public.

Please follow this link

http://www.replacethebridgenow.com/

There is a very LOng and Very High bridge that connects the park and it's communites to the outside world. If one rated bridges 1 to 100 with 1 being the poorest, it would rate 2. It has an estimated 10 years left. The SELC is doing all they can to Sabbatage the effort for it's building by filing lawsuit after lawsuit to put up roadblocks preventing it.
Image

If the bridge collapses, I for one say the blood of the victims is on their hands. Mabee they will sued for wrongful death if such a thing happened.
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

What we need in this situation is intelligent people who can keep both the environmental extremists and the environmentally ignorant at bay.

Environmental extremists and terrorists need to be careful. If they persist with their tactics, those affected very well may commit unspeakable acts against the wildlife to make protection a non-issue. It never pays to be unreasonable. The behavior is contageous.

But you know... Maybe we don't have anything at all to worry about, Ben. If we take man-made global warming to be a fact, then the whole Hatteras peninsula will be under water in a century or less. I say buy homes, get flood insurance, cash in your chips, and move on.

(Tongue firmly planted in cheek.)

- Bill

P.S. Nice hurricane season we had, eh? That 2nd non-season in a row is yet another false prediction from the global warming Chicken Littles. We still have water restrictions in our part of the state.
IJ
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Post by IJ »

Bill, not that I'm defending these antiamerican psychotic misguided lunatics, but.... who is going to blow up the environment to make it a nonissue, seriously? All those people who want to go to Cape Hatteras? Hussein was hanged.

Can we see anything from the antibridge side? Also, how does a 2 of 100 bridge have 10 years in it? If we replaced all the bridges with 10 years in them in the USA today, we'd probably have a fair amount of work to do.
--Ian
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Ian wrote:
but.... who is going to blow up the environment to make it a nonissue, seriously?
Unreasonable behavior begats unreasonable behavior. We're not talking about rational, intelligent people, Ian. We're talking about idiots fighting idiots. We're talking emotional responses to emotional behavior.

I've seen the extremists on both sides, Ian. Environmentally insensitive property owners don't like it when outsiders tell them how to live in their neighborhood. Back them into a corner, and they will respond.

Just look around you, Ian. Don't you have more than a couple of idiots setting fires? Putting lives and property in harm's way? (My sister's property is right on the edge of the Santiago fire.) Don't look for a rational explanation. It most definitely happens.

I rest my case.

- Bill
IJ
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Post by IJ »

So, because some disturbed person set a fire, someone else taking a stand against environmental protection of an area (almost always, because they have interests there themselves), is going to destory it? These seem like unrelated issues. We might as well say, a madman once did X, therefore, don't engage in litigation or debate on anything as one may well target you next. It doesn't really define our risk, however.
--Ian
benzocaine
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Post by benzocaine »

Ian,

The motive behind the S.E.L.C. is to stop a short bridge connecting the Islands from being built. They would prefer a much longer bridge that would completely bypass Pea Island National Refuge. Currently Route 12 goes through it. They argue that route 12 often needs repair due to overspills caused by storms.

http://www.fws.gov/peaisland/images/bon ... t62603.pdf

Here is a fact sheet put out by the government.

There were 4 proposed bridge plans the shortest bridge, and the one that has been selected, cost 138 million. The other three are 240, 347, and 260 million dollars to build.

Personally I'm fine with spending 260 million to bypass the Pea Island National Refuge.... but the budget is done and that's that. Agreeing to change the plan now would result in years of beaurocratic nightmares, and given their track record, the SELC would find problems in that plan, and file law suit after lawsuit. That is how their track record is at least.

---------------

As for what Bill says about people taking things to extremes, let me put forth this scenerio.

1) Piping plovers spotted at a favorite fishing spot of Joe.
2) Park closes that area to all trafic to protect the birds. Birds breed to make more birds. More birds more nesting areas=more beach closed.
(this is what happened to the Cape Code National seashore)

So as a result Joe doesn't fish here any more, and doesn't patronise local stores, hotels, resteraunts. Joe HATES those G.D. tree huggers with a passion now, as well as the damn piping plovers.

So one day a park ranger finds that the breeding gounds of the birds are destroyed and also finds a few dead. Footprints every where.

Who killed the plover? Joe or the store owners or the hotel owner?
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

IJ wrote:
some disturbed person set a fire
Ian, do you listen to your own news? I'm on the opposite coast, and know more about the California fires than you do.

Two people have been apprehended setting fires in southern California. A third was shot and killed for doing the same. And those are just the people they caught. Read your news. There are multiple fires in multiple locations all around Southern California. Most - if not all of them - were deliberately set.

The motivation(s)? We're not sure yet. But there are any number of sinister possibilities. There are the environmental extremists who hate development. There are developers who are frustrated with environmentalists blocking legislation that would protect developments. My two sisters who live in the area have a lot of very interesting information. Some of it amounts to terrorist activity. (For instance, there is an extremely large Iranian-American population quietly living in certain pockets, making lots of money, and doing what they can to initiate regime change in Iran.)

Bottom line - I'm not talking theory. This is reality.

I have a question for you, Ian. Have you ever deliberately and repeatedly broken the law because you felt that the world around you was unjust? If you answer no to this, my response is

Liar liar,
Pants on fire!


A dangerous criminal in the eyes of one is a freedom fighter in the eyes of the next. It's all a matter of perspective. And there are a LOT of perspectives out there. That's all fine and good until one group tries to impose its will on the next - at the latter's expense.

Which brings me back to my original point.
Bill wrote:
What we need in this situation is intelligent people who can keep both the environmental extremists and the environmentally ignorant at bay.
- Bill
IJ
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Post by IJ »

There are fires out here? Thanks for the tip, cough cough. :lol:

Ok, the guy shot to death was "acting suspiciously" per the Tribune, not lighting a fire, and I found the initial report a little disturbing because there was little to explain why he needed to be shot, realizing that reporters don't always have all the info. Aside from that detail, I still fail to see how changing "some disturbed person" to "some disturbed persons" makes it likely that someone will destroy nature to save it. It doesn't seem particularly in line with the goals. Popping a few plovers? Yeah, sure that cataclism might occur, but if angry Joe wants his tourism business to return, he can't very well bomb the wildlife refuge or riddle the news with stories about bullets flying everywhere, can he?

If you had said AL QAEDA would light fires during the santa ana winds, then I'd have responded, sheesh! Scary stuff, and who's to say they couldn't take out half the city if they were smart and made a concerted effort.... one of those big ones was just a housefire writ large. Why try to take the Brooklyn bridge??

But your candidates for eco terrorism are pretty far fetched. I for one cannot conclude how the Iranian Americans living quietly and making money and supporting regime change in Iran (who doesn't??) have anything to do with the price of rice in China, much less the fires. Is there more to that tale?

Lastly, yeah, I've broken laws I don't agree with--I accepted a glass of wine when I ate thanksgiving dinner with the 'rents in highschool, and I used to break the speed limit 10 mph or so (no longer! mpg to think about), and I've tallied up approximately 35,000 years of Virginia prison eligibility by living in a monogamous relationship for 6 years there. Um, how does that make me a liar, light my pants, or any wildfires? Seems like a nonsequitor to me.

FYI: sent you a PM. Visiting VA 11/13-19, or at least part of that.
--Ian
benzocaine
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BUMP

Post by benzocaine »

This is an old thread on a dear subject. There are a few folks in the NC VA area who might care.

Slowly but surely these people chip away at our rights, and use Judges and lawsuits to do it. :-(

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/11569720/

Enviros Sue to Keep Vehicles Off Cape Hatteras Beaches
Monisha Bansal
Senior Staff Writer
(CNSNews.com) - Environmental groups have filed a preliminary injunction seeking to stop vehicles from driving on the beaches of Cape Hatteras National Shoreline, because they say it has harmed local bird populations. Sport fishers, however, say the measure will hurt their businesses, as well as the overall economy there.

The injunction would cover about 12 percent of the shoreline, an area that environmentalists say is critical for the piping plover.

"At this point, every breeding season is critically important to the shorebirds that nest on Hatteras. Fortunately, by limiting driving on even this small area would help protect them during this season, giving the Park Service time to develop and implement a reasonable long-term plan to manage driving on the beach," said Derb Carter, an attorney with the Southern Environmental Law Center, which is representing the National Audubon Society and Defenders of Wildlife in this case.

"Each year we see fewer and fewer of these species on Hatteras," Carter said. "Waiting any longer for the [National] Park Service to properly manage beach driving could very well mean we have nothing left to protect."

The National Park Service is required to create a management plan for off-road vehicle (ORV) use. Because no plan was in place, U.S. District Judge Terrence Boyle ruled in July that ORV traffic was not permitted on the shoreline.

The park service responded by saying vehicle use will be permitted until a plan is implemented. The group is in the process of creating a management plan but said it may take three years before it will be in operation.

"The lack of an approved plan has led over time to inconsistent management of ORV use, user conflicts, and safety concerns," the park service noted.

"The seashore needs to provide for protected species management in relation to ORV and other uses to replace the Interim Protected Species Management Strategy/EA and associated Biological Opinion," it added.

"The only way to safeguard everyone's access to Cape Hatteras is to put a responsible, science-based vehicle management plan in place now," Chris Canfield, executive director of Audubon North Carolina, said in a statement. "That the Park Service has failed to do so imperils not only the birds and natural areas, but also the safety of all visitors."

The American Sportfishing Association, however, said restricting ORV use could hurt local communities.

"Since ORVs are necessary to access many sportfishing areas of the national seashore, the concern is that the plan may give little consideration to economic impacts to any segment of the sportfishing industry and the communities that depend on sportfishing," the group said in a statement.

"The implementation of the management plan poses serious questions about the future of recreational fishing in Cape Hatteras National Park and presents a serious challenge to sportfishing," they added. "The management plan could ultimately prevent reasonable access to many of Cape Hatteras' best marine sportfishing areas."

The group noted that North Carolina has over 519,000 saltwater anglers, and sportfishing generates $58.5 million in state tax revenue earnings, supports 9,735 North Carolina jobs, and pays $267.2 million in salaries and wages.

The American Sportfishing Association (ASA) also questioned the need for protecting these birds. They noted that the shoreline is "the northernmost point of the wintering range for piping plovers, and ASA believes that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has not made its case for why this marginal area is essential to the conservation of the species."
benzocaine
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Post by benzocaine »

What they don't tell us is that only about 25% of the seashore is accessable now. The other 12% they want to take away is THE BEST 12%.

Bill, thanks for allowing OT subjects on your Forum.
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

My wife and I like to make an off road visit to the Outer Banks each year. One affect of a ban on beach driving in the park area would be serious overcrowding in the areas left. That would create all sorts of new problems.

Image

One bit of good news... By this summer law abiding citizens will be allowed to carry concealed weapons in national parks. Once that is approved I am going to visit a few parks doing just that to celebrate a win for the good guys.

Rich
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
benzocaine
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Post by benzocaine »

Yeah... look at al the destruction your tire tracks caused Rich! :evil:

E mail Cyndy_Holda@nps.gov and let her know your concerns. She is the spokes person for the NPS at Hatteras.

Hip hip horray about the recent gun victory! Lets hope the DC Supreme court case will be so good!
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

NYC...DC... the armpits of the USA...not sure which one stinks the most. :lol:
Van
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