http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1765 ... black-belt
Regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
www.uechi-la.org
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
Are you tough enough to wear that black belt?
Moderator: Available
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Black belt tests
I guess it all gets down to what you're trying to achieve, and how you're going to achieve it.
The traditional or contemporary "black belt" SHOULD represent someone who is well on his/her way to practicing and teaching a well-defined body of knowledge. But... to what end? If the goal is to get junior off the street and occupied with physical pursuits, then maybe the 20-hour black belt exam is appropriate. If the goal is to preserve a body of martial knowledge from the past (that may or may not be "timeless"), then some technique and application-specific assessments are in order. History should also be included in the curriculum and assessment. If the goal is to get someone proficient in sport competition (such as with judo), then competition should be a good part of the measure. If the goal is to prepare someone for the battlefield (such as with the MCMAP), then battlefield tactics and reality-based assessments are in order.
The most important thing is to understand what you are trying to accomplish, and find ways to measure the degree to which those goals are being met. If this was an easy thing to do, then we'd all have a good idea whether or not academic schools were doing their jobs. Alas even that is the subject of much debate and political turmoil.
- Bill
The traditional or contemporary "black belt" SHOULD represent someone who is well on his/her way to practicing and teaching a well-defined body of knowledge. But... to what end? If the goal is to get junior off the street and occupied with physical pursuits, then maybe the 20-hour black belt exam is appropriate. If the goal is to preserve a body of martial knowledge from the past (that may or may not be "timeless"), then some technique and application-specific assessments are in order. History should also be included in the curriculum and assessment. If the goal is to get someone proficient in sport competition (such as with judo), then competition should be a good part of the measure. If the goal is to prepare someone for the battlefield (such as with the MCMAP), then battlefield tactics and reality-based assessments are in order.
The most important thing is to understand what you are trying to accomplish, and find ways to measure the degree to which those goals are being met. If this was an easy thing to do, then we'd all have a good idea whether or not academic schools were doing their jobs. Alas even that is the subject of much debate and political turmoil.
- Bill
Bill wrote,
"if the goal is to get junior off the street and occupied with physical pursuits, then maybe the 20-hour black belt exam is appropriate. "
Personally, I cannot envision any reason why a 20 hour marathon of kicking, punching, forms, sparring is appropriate for any kid or adult in relation to a traditional Asian black belt test. These kids are not in "boot camp". They are testing for a junior black belt (which many would argue should not be allowed in the first place - Refer back to my previous article; "Is your black belt worth anything?).
http://www.examiner.com/x-17652-LA-Mart ... h-anything
I am not talking about the Marines. As to the grappling arts, I suspect the majority of black belt tests follow a similar pattern as the striking systems where you must demonstrate kihon, randori, knowledge, etc.
I also cannot fathom a legitimate reason to require black belt candidates, within traditional Asian systems, to meet the following standards as promulgated by one particular school (excerpted from my article):
"Conditioning:
1- Flexibility: Chest touches the floor in a seated position with legs open.
2- Push ups: 100.
3- Jumping Squats:100.
4- Hand Stand: 90 Seconds.
5- Chin ups: 15.
6- Jump Your own height + 30cm
It appears that this school is more concerned about physical conditioning than technical proficiency. What does a black belt have to do with these requirements? Not much.
Technical proficiency is derived from proper repetitive practice not from performing hand stands, chin-ups or jumping squats.
Given proper repetitive practice, the answer as to whether you are "tough enough", "strong enough" and/or "fast enough" to earn or wear your black belt lies within yourself and the mamner in which you train. It has nothing to do with calisthenics, whether you can perform a split or if you can withstand a 20 hour test. If you and/or your children are studying at a school that has these (arguably) excessive requirements you may consider why you should put yourself and/or your children at a safety risk to achieve an end that has nothing to do with showing, within a reasonable time frame, an appropriate level of technical proficiency."
Please note that I am not recommending that we promote individuals to black belt rank who are aerobically de-conditioned to the point where they cannot proficiently complete a kata or a two person set. Nor am I suggesting that promotions be awarded to those who are too weak to raise their arms after a reasonable number of drills.
In my opinion, proper repetitive practice, mindset and attitude are the keys to passing the test. The test itself should be a confirmation that the student has already reached the level of performance that is expected.
I would blame the instructor for putting up a student who has not already proven in class, over a period of time, that they have met the required criteria. In my estimation, there is no need to "drag out" the test as the "test" should have been passed before the student goes through the formality.
Regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
www.uechi-la.org
"if the goal is to get junior off the street and occupied with physical pursuits, then maybe the 20-hour black belt exam is appropriate. "
Personally, I cannot envision any reason why a 20 hour marathon of kicking, punching, forms, sparring is appropriate for any kid or adult in relation to a traditional Asian black belt test. These kids are not in "boot camp". They are testing for a junior black belt (which many would argue should not be allowed in the first place - Refer back to my previous article; "Is your black belt worth anything?).
http://www.examiner.com/x-17652-LA-Mart ... h-anything
I am not talking about the Marines. As to the grappling arts, I suspect the majority of black belt tests follow a similar pattern as the striking systems where you must demonstrate kihon, randori, knowledge, etc.
I also cannot fathom a legitimate reason to require black belt candidates, within traditional Asian systems, to meet the following standards as promulgated by one particular school (excerpted from my article):
"Conditioning:
1- Flexibility: Chest touches the floor in a seated position with legs open.
2- Push ups: 100.
3- Jumping Squats:100.
4- Hand Stand: 90 Seconds.
5- Chin ups: 15.
6- Jump Your own height + 30cm
It appears that this school is more concerned about physical conditioning than technical proficiency. What does a black belt have to do with these requirements? Not much.
Technical proficiency is derived from proper repetitive practice not from performing hand stands, chin-ups or jumping squats.
Given proper repetitive practice, the answer as to whether you are "tough enough", "strong enough" and/or "fast enough" to earn or wear your black belt lies within yourself and the mamner in which you train. It has nothing to do with calisthenics, whether you can perform a split or if you can withstand a 20 hour test. If you and/or your children are studying at a school that has these (arguably) excessive requirements you may consider why you should put yourself and/or your children at a safety risk to achieve an end that has nothing to do with showing, within a reasonable time frame, an appropriate level of technical proficiency."
Please note that I am not recommending that we promote individuals to black belt rank who are aerobically de-conditioned to the point where they cannot proficiently complete a kata or a two person set. Nor am I suggesting that promotions be awarded to those who are too weak to raise their arms after a reasonable number of drills.
In my opinion, proper repetitive practice, mindset and attitude are the keys to passing the test. The test itself should be a confirmation that the student has already reached the level of performance that is expected.
I would blame the instructor for putting up a student who has not already proven in class, over a period of time, that they have met the required criteria. In my estimation, there is no need to "drag out" the test as the "test" should have been passed before the student goes through the formality.
Regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
www.uechi-la.org
I can easily see having to conduct a 20 hour black belt test as it took us 5 - 6 hours just to test the three Ks and these kids have a lot to demonstrate. Also the 20 hours seems to be over three or four days, and they don't seem to be testing every single minute of the 20 hours. One other thing, I don't think they are really doing a traditional Asian black belt test, they are testing to their schools standards.miked wrote:Personally, I cannot envision any reason why a 20 hour marathon of kicking, punching, forms, sparring is appropriate for any kid or adult in relation to a traditional Asian black belt test.
Imagine the kids in the video doing the Shotokan or Uchi prearranged kumite. They'd shame many adults, especially me.
I'd have to say if these kids performed along the lines of what the video showed they deserve their black belts. These kids have been exposed to a lot of material, more so than I've experienced in most traditional schools, and were able to execute it at a pretty good level.miked wrote:These kids are not in "boot camp". They are testing for a junior black belt (which many would argue should not be allowed in the first place - Refer back to my previous article; "Is your black belt worth anything?).
http://www.examiner.com/x-17652-LA-Mart ... h-anything
Their testing is their testing, their standards are their standards, and in my opinion as legitimate as anyone's testing standards. After all does Sanchin testing really have a lot to do with technical proficiency? I don't see why including physical conditioning shouldn't be included along side technical proficiency, as long as the testing board and sensei can meet and exceed what's expected of the candidates.miked wrote:I also cannot fathom a legitimate reason to require black belt candidates, within traditional Asian systems, to meet the following standards as promulgated by one particular school (excerpted from my article):
"Conditioning:
1- Flexibility: Chest touches the floor in a seated position with legs open.
2- Push ups: 100.
3- Jumping Squats:100.
4- Hand Stand: 90 Seconds.
5- Chin ups: 15.
6- Jump Your own height + 30cm
It appears that this school is more concerned about physical conditioning than technical proficiency. What does a black belt have to do with these requirements? Not much.
I was dreaming of the past...
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
My first style (Nippon Shorin Ken) was taught to me (at W&M) by what I fondly call a Japanese crazy. Karate camps were 3-day sessions that made these "marathon" sessions look mild in comparison. I can recall being on my knees in the North Carolina surf in February, punching the waves that came crashing down on me. For twenty minutes. Three times during the weekend. Then there was crawling on the belly up and down sand dunes for miles at Kill Devils Hills like infantry approaching the enemy. And there were the agonizing leg lift sessions. And one-on-one sparring sessions. And three-on-one sparring sessions. And 3 AM workouts around a camp fire with my crazy teacher swinging a flaming stick at me while I did high blocks. And kata after kata after kata.
What did I learn? Just a bit about that "spirit" part of the Sanchin triad. The body and mind were intentionally trashed. The only thing that kept you going was your spirit - especially the espirit de corp that dragged us all along in unison.
Were these black belt tests? No. But regular karate camp participation was a requirement to be met before belt testing.
It's a Japanese thing. If you've never trained in that kind of dojo or you never read about Imperial Japan, you might not understand. If you've never done boot camp training for the Marines, you might not understand.
Is this kind of training a requirement for the Marine Corp Martial Arts Program? You bet. And why? Because of what they are trying to achieve.
It is what it is. I survived it. I don't teach it. But I value the experiences.
- Bill
What did I learn? Just a bit about that "spirit" part of the Sanchin triad. The body and mind were intentionally trashed. The only thing that kept you going was your spirit - especially the espirit de corp that dragged us all along in unison.
Were these black belt tests? No. But regular karate camp participation was a requirement to be met before belt testing.
It's a Japanese thing. If you've never trained in that kind of dojo or you never read about Imperial Japan, you might not understand. If you've never done boot camp training for the Marines, you might not understand.
Is this kind of training a requirement for the Marine Corp Martial Arts Program? You bet. And why? Because of what they are trying to achieve.
It is what it is. I survived it. I don't teach it. But I value the experiences.
- Bill
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
One additional thing to add about those "extreme" martial arts camps.
My teacher (at the time) tried to make things nearly impossible at these camps. What I did note was that most things were mind over matter. But NOBODY liked the punching on the knees in the winter ocean surf. I still remember the loud screams of grown men as the first cold winter wave crashed on our bodies. Yep... Nobody liked that schit.
Except me.
And why? I had a bum knee. I had just had a lateral menisectomy, and the thing was constantly swelling. But twenty minute sessions in the frigid ocean water was like having an ice pack on that bum knee. It made it feel... BETTER!
I didn't dare tell that to my teacher though...
And that brings to mind a for-real martial arts experience. The individual will remain unnamed because he would want it that way. But he was a Uechika who became a POW. While he was a prisoner, he was tortured in a way that few have experienced except for maybe John McCain. One particular brand of torture involved this tourniquet-like device that pulled the arms back in an obscene range of motion. It was designed to inflict extreme pain, and indeed it did.
Except... This Uechika had fantastic flexibility. But do you think he told his captors that their torture was no big deal?
- Bill
My teacher (at the time) tried to make things nearly impossible at these camps. What I did note was that most things were mind over matter. But NOBODY liked the punching on the knees in the winter ocean surf. I still remember the loud screams of grown men as the first cold winter wave crashed on our bodies. Yep... Nobody liked that schit.
Except me.
And why? I had a bum knee. I had just had a lateral menisectomy, and the thing was constantly swelling. But twenty minute sessions in the frigid ocean water was like having an ice pack on that bum knee. It made it feel... BETTER!
I didn't dare tell that to my teacher though...
And that brings to mind a for-real martial arts experience. The individual will remain unnamed because he would want it that way. But he was a Uechika who became a POW. While he was a prisoner, he was tortured in a way that few have experienced except for maybe John McCain. One particular brand of torture involved this tourniquet-like device that pulled the arms back in an obscene range of motion. It was designed to inflict extreme pain, and indeed it did.
Except... This Uechika had fantastic flexibility. But do you think he told his captors that their torture was no big deal?
- Bill
Interesting. As a teacher, when I was one, I always considered an over-full examination to be a sign of a lazy instructor. A diligent and competent instructor never needs that to make an accurate assessment. If you have to, tell them you might ask them anything, but don't actually ask them everything. You set the examination duration to be something reasonable, and then you use your well-developed sense of priorities to make the choices.MikeK wrote: I can easily see having to conduct a 20 hour black belt test as it took us 5 - 6 hours just to test the three Ks and these kids have a lot to demonstrate.
OTOH, I get the boot camp concept, not that I see why a boot camp should be tied to a black belt examination. Anyway, if that's what it's about, OK, fine, but taking that much time to test proficiency is just self-indulgent. My fear is that the motivation is really none of the above, rather about trying to make something more valuable simply by making it harder to obtain.
Mike
They weren't over full Mike, but there were quite a few people to test.
At one of the schools I was with there was a gal who couldn't get past advanced brown, after years at that level she just couldn't move up. That created a stir about what to do about her; advance her anyway, encourage her to leave, etc. I asked why not just let her enjoy her current rank as she wasn't a drag on the school, was well regarded and was a hard worker.
I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Making the BB harder to get also adds value to the kyu ranks below and makes them more than just another bit of colored cloth.My fear is that the motivation is really none of the above, rather about trying to make something more valuable simply by making it harder to obtain.
At one of the schools I was with there was a gal who couldn't get past advanced brown, after years at that level she just couldn't move up. That created a stir about what to do about her; advance her anyway, encourage her to leave, etc. I asked why not just let her enjoy her current rank as she wasn't a drag on the school, was well regarded and was a hard worker.
I was dreaming of the past...
Mike K wrote:
"Imagine the kids in the video doing the Shotokan or Uchi prearranged kumite. They'd shame many adults, especially me."
"I'd have to say if these kids performed along the lines of what the video showed they deserve their black belts. These kids have been exposed to a lot of material, more so than I've experienced in most traditional schools, and were able to execute it at a pretty good level..."
"After all does Sanchin testing really have a lot to do with technical proficiency? "
---------------------------------------------------------
Mike K,
With all due respect, below is my response to each of these quotes.
As I have previously contended, a skilled adult black belt who has been learning under proper guidance and training with appropriate repetitive practice would simply overwhelm any of these kids due to his/her physical, mental and spiritual maturity. In my opinion, to believe that a 10 year old kid will outperform an adult of the same rank who has the same number of practice years with the right instruction and training, is simply not accurate. Of course, I am not speaking of those adults who have bad instruction or poor training habits who just happened to have marginally passed a low standard black belt test. I am speaking of those adults who have spent years honing their skills within a traditional Asian school of martial art under a good instructor.
As to Sanchin testing having relevance to karate practice, I have replicated an excerpt from an article that I conceived and coauthored that is titled
"The Roots of Okinawan Body Conditioning in Sanchin" (2000 Elkins, DeDonato & Morenski)http://www.uechi-la.org/Contents.htm
"The practice of Sanchin and body conditioning prove inexorably entwined and remain the heart and soul of Uechi-Ryu, Goju-Ryu, Isshin-Ryu and other traditional Okinawan martial arts systems. Proponents of these styles contend that there is no karate without Sanchin and there is no Sanchin without proper body conditioning. The practice of Sanchin promotes superior stability, mobility, economic movement, and explosive generation of power through efficient structural alignment of bones, tendons, and muscles. Such practice also provides the prototype of all movements of deflection. Additionally, correct structure and Sanchin shime (testing) trains practitioners to properly accept, absorb and redirect the inevitable blows of real fighting. The root of all conditioning is found in Sanchin shime .
Sanchin shime also educates the practitioner in mushin (“no-mind”). The development of mushin intrinsically supports the application of martial arts to real-life combat scenarios. Shime provides practitioners the opportunity to discipline the mind so that it may remain calm in the midst of furious action. Sadly, this aspect of martial arts training is often given short shrift in the quest for belt ranking, medals, and trophies. Each successive stage in martial arts training forms a link to a warrior’s mind-set. Without the development of mushin, practitioners will likely be unable to progress successively to advanced levels of training. Without a foundation in mushin, concepts such as shibumi (poise) and maii (distancing) may be forever lost to the trainee. "
Best regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
310 710-6334
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
"Imagine the kids in the video doing the Shotokan or Uchi prearranged kumite. They'd shame many adults, especially me."
"I'd have to say if these kids performed along the lines of what the video showed they deserve their black belts. These kids have been exposed to a lot of material, more so than I've experienced in most traditional schools, and were able to execute it at a pretty good level..."
"After all does Sanchin testing really have a lot to do with technical proficiency? "
---------------------------------------------------------
Mike K,
With all due respect, below is my response to each of these quotes.
As I have previously contended, a skilled adult black belt who has been learning under proper guidance and training with appropriate repetitive practice would simply overwhelm any of these kids due to his/her physical, mental and spiritual maturity. In my opinion, to believe that a 10 year old kid will outperform an adult of the same rank who has the same number of practice years with the right instruction and training, is simply not accurate. Of course, I am not speaking of those adults who have bad instruction or poor training habits who just happened to have marginally passed a low standard black belt test. I am speaking of those adults who have spent years honing their skills within a traditional Asian school of martial art under a good instructor.
As to Sanchin testing having relevance to karate practice, I have replicated an excerpt from an article that I conceived and coauthored that is titled
"The Roots of Okinawan Body Conditioning in Sanchin" (2000 Elkins, DeDonato & Morenski)http://www.uechi-la.org/Contents.htm
"The practice of Sanchin and body conditioning prove inexorably entwined and remain the heart and soul of Uechi-Ryu, Goju-Ryu, Isshin-Ryu and other traditional Okinawan martial arts systems. Proponents of these styles contend that there is no karate without Sanchin and there is no Sanchin without proper body conditioning. The practice of Sanchin promotes superior stability, mobility, economic movement, and explosive generation of power through efficient structural alignment of bones, tendons, and muscles. Such practice also provides the prototype of all movements of deflection. Additionally, correct structure and Sanchin shime (testing) trains practitioners to properly accept, absorb and redirect the inevitable blows of real fighting. The root of all conditioning is found in Sanchin shime .
Sanchin shime also educates the practitioner in mushin (“no-mind”). The development of mushin intrinsically supports the application of martial arts to real-life combat scenarios. Shime provides practitioners the opportunity to discipline the mind so that it may remain calm in the midst of furious action. Sadly, this aspect of martial arts training is often given short shrift in the quest for belt ranking, medals, and trophies. Each successive stage in martial arts training forms a link to a warrior’s mind-set. Without the development of mushin, practitioners will likely be unable to progress successively to advanced levels of training. Without a foundation in mushin, concepts such as shibumi (poise) and maii (distancing) may be forever lost to the trainee. "
Best regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
310 710-6334
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
Martial Arts "Boot camp"
Bill,
I understand the martial arts "boot camp" approach. I spent many years training under "drill sergeants" (Carmine DiRamio and Ahti Kaend).
Both of these gentlemen produced formidable and powerful Uechi-ka.
Doing a week-long or week-end long "boot camp" for adults to build spirit does have its role.
My point is that a 20 hour long marathon for 10-11 year old kids or adults to earn a first degree black belt is, in my opinion, excessive.
Aside from the controversy as to whether children should be awarded black belts, what additional information was gained after the first few hours that could not have been gained earlier concerning technical proficiency and spirit?
Additionally, the instructors should not be putting up students who they know would not pass the test. So why drag it on for no practical reason? I believe that the "esprit de corps" should have been built prior to the testing day and the "test" should have been passed long before the actual formality.
As to the calisthenic nature of some tests, I still do not see the point for these requirements. If you want someone to demonstrate flexibility, core strength, balance, etc., then make them perform katas that incorporate these elements and dispense with the other b.s. If you want someone to demonstrate aerobic conditioning then have them spar for an appropriate period of time.
Best regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
www.uechi-la.org
I understand the martial arts "boot camp" approach. I spent many years training under "drill sergeants" (Carmine DiRamio and Ahti Kaend).
Both of these gentlemen produced formidable and powerful Uechi-ka.
Doing a week-long or week-end long "boot camp" for adults to build spirit does have its role.
My point is that a 20 hour long marathon for 10-11 year old kids or adults to earn a first degree black belt is, in my opinion, excessive.
Aside from the controversy as to whether children should be awarded black belts, what additional information was gained after the first few hours that could not have been gained earlier concerning technical proficiency and spirit?
Additionally, the instructors should not be putting up students who they know would not pass the test. So why drag it on for no practical reason? I believe that the "esprit de corps" should have been built prior to the testing day and the "test" should have been passed long before the actual formality.
As to the calisthenic nature of some tests, I still do not see the point for these requirements. If you want someone to demonstrate flexibility, core strength, balance, etc., then make them perform katas that incorporate these elements and dispense with the other b.s. If you want someone to demonstrate aerobic conditioning then have them spar for an appropriate period of time.
Best regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
www.uechi-la.org
Mike H wrote:
"You set the examination duration to be something reasonable, and then you use your well-developed sense of priorities to make the choices.
OTOH, I get the boot camp concept, not that I see why a boot camp should be tied to a black belt examination. Anyway, if that's what it's about, OK, fine, but taking that much time to test proficiency is just self-indulgent. "
--------------------------------------------------------
Mike has brilliantly encapsulated my own thoughts in just a few sentences.
Proficiency should have been demonstrated long before the actual test. Ok, so have the kids do pushups, crunches and what-nots during class time (which I also believe is wasting valuable time IMHO, the PE stuff should be done by the kids outside of class on their own time. It seems to me that class time should be focused on building the relevant martial art skill sets. )
I can see that if a board has a large number of candidates
that must perform many katas, two person sets, drills and sparring matches how such a test may last longer than 4 or so hours. In that situation, I believe that the best solution is to set up multiple boards (which many organizations have done) and/or breaking the test into multiple days.
Regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
www.uechi-la.org
"You set the examination duration to be something reasonable, and then you use your well-developed sense of priorities to make the choices.
OTOH, I get the boot camp concept, not that I see why a boot camp should be tied to a black belt examination. Anyway, if that's what it's about, OK, fine, but taking that much time to test proficiency is just self-indulgent. "
--------------------------------------------------------
Mike has brilliantly encapsulated my own thoughts in just a few sentences.
Proficiency should have been demonstrated long before the actual test. Ok, so have the kids do pushups, crunches and what-nots during class time (which I also believe is wasting valuable time IMHO, the PE stuff should be done by the kids outside of class on their own time. It seems to me that class time should be focused on building the relevant martial art skill sets. )
I can see that if a board has a large number of candidates
that must perform many katas, two person sets, drills and sparring matches how such a test may last longer than 4 or so hours. In that situation, I believe that the best solution is to set up multiple boards (which many organizations have done) and/or breaking the test into multiple days.
Regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
www.uechi-la.org
Re: Martial Arts "Boot camp"
It was more like two 10 hour marathons.miked wrote:My point is that a 20 hour long marathon for 10-11 year old kids or adults to earn a first degree black belt is, in my opinion, excessive.
Mike,miked wrote:Aside from the controversy as to whether children should be awarded black belts, what additional information was gained after the first few hours that could not have been gained earlier concerning technical proficiency and spirit?
I don't think their test was about gaining more information about the student but more about getting the student to get information about themselves and what they can do. The one thing that worries me is the cult like behavior during the test, but that may just be the editing.
And if all was gleaned and developed before the test then isn't the test itself nothing more than a formality and of no real purpose?
I was dreaming of the past...
If that all works for you then keep on keeping on, but let's just say I disagree with a good part of what you wrote. So in karate terms, I'll now bow out.miked wrote:Mike K,
With all due respect, below is my response to each of these quotes.
As I have previously contended, a skilled adult black belt who has been learning under proper guidance and training with appropriate repetitive practice would simply overwhelm any of these kids due to his/her physical, mental and spiritual maturity. In my opinion, to believe that a 10 year old kid will outperform an adult of the same rank who has the same number of practice years with the right instruction and training, is simply not accurate. Of course, I am not speaking of those adults who have bad instruction or poor training habits who just happened to have marginally passed a low standard black belt test. I am speaking of those adults who have spent years honing their skills within a traditional Asian school of martial art under a good instructor.
As to Sanchin testing having relevance to karate practice, I have replicated an excerpt from an article that I conceived and coauthored that is titled
"The Roots of Okinawan Body Conditioning in Sanchin" (2000 Elkins, DeDonato & Morenski)http://www.uechi-la.org/Contents.htm
"The practice of Sanchin and body conditioning prove inexorably entwined and remain the heart and soul of Uechi-Ryu, Goju-Ryu, Isshin-Ryu and other traditional Okinawan martial arts systems. Proponents of these styles contend that there is no karate without Sanchin and there is no Sanchin without proper body conditioning. The practice of Sanchin promotes superior stability, mobility, economic movement, and explosive generation of power through efficient structural alignment of bones, tendons, and muscles. Such practice also provides the prototype of all movements of deflection. Additionally, correct structure and Sanchin shime (testing) trains practitioners to properly accept, absorb and redirect the inevitable blows of real fighting. The root of all conditioning is found in Sanchin shime .
Sanchin shime also educates the practitioner in mushin (“no-mind”). The development of mushin intrinsically supports the application of martial arts to real-life combat scenarios. Shime provides practitioners the opportunity to discipline the mind so that it may remain calm in the midst of furious action. Sadly, this aspect of martial arts training is often given short shrift in the quest for belt ranking, medals, and trophies. Each successive stage in martial arts training forms a link to a warrior’s mind-set. Without the development of mushin, practitioners will likely be unable to progress successively to advanced levels of training. Without a foundation in mushin, concepts such as shibumi (poise) and maii (distancing) may be forever lost to the trainee. "
Best regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
310 710-6334
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
I was dreaming of the past...
Re: Are you tough enough to wear that black belt?
Bows back in...
One last thing. Did you contact the schools owner before using him as your example.
http://canadasbestkarate.com/index.php
Bows back out...
One last thing. Did you contact the schools owner before using him as your example.
http://canadasbestkarate.com/index.php
Bows back out...
miked wrote:http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1765 ... black-belt
Regards,
Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles, CA
www.uechi-la.org
mjdcgb@ca.rr.com
I was dreaming of the past...
Well, then that's apples and oranges, I think. Having a lot of people watch while other folks do their individual tests is not the same thing. That's just about the logistics of processing a lot of people. However, the school my son went to (formerly, now he studies Uechi Ryu with his big brother and me at Fedele's) had an 8-hour black belt examination. That's 8 hours of active testing for everyone with the instructors walking around barking instructions and taking mental notes. Little or no individual--now you do your thing, now you do yours, etc.MikeK wrote:They weren't over full Mike, but there were quite a few people to test.
Mike
