Japan Inc. falls on its face

[Bill Glasheen]

I think voters tend to be more fickle than car owners!

Interesting hypothesis. On what do you base this feeling - other than intuition?

- Bill

[Bill Bauknecht]

I think I agree with you Glenn. Car buyers will shop, really think about what model they want, kick the tires etc., but generally stay with the same manufacturer. Voters: Dems generally vote democrat, Pubs generally vote republican, Independents, I would say the majority now, will vote basically on what they see on TV the day before. So, car buyers, dems, pubs pretty much stay with what they have, independents will blow with the wind. In case anyone cares, I loved my Toyotas over the past 30 years, Celica, Supra's, 4 wheel drive trucks, 4 runner, Sienna's and my Camry. I am also an independent conservative!! If you can figure this one out, you win the booby prize.
Bill (B)

[gmattson]

Tell the truth. . .
The only requirement for your transportation is that the vehicle will hold at least four sets of golf clubs!

You coming to WinterFest? Lined up a fantastic golf course for a pre-tournament match with a group coming in from New England early!

[IJ]

This is merely a rare problem like those behind many a recall--but it's a bigger issue for Toyota because they were supposedly infallible (after CR stopped recommending all their new cars because of some reliability problems, we knew that wasn't always true).

This is a hiccough not a fall on the face, and I'd rather trip and keep running than pull a Chrysler and crawl around on life support constantly sukking. But a discrepancy for Toyota when it would have been par for the course for others.

[f.Channell]

The only problem with my Toyota is that it doesn't come when I whistle.......

I took my daughters Jeep Wrangler to get an inspection sticker today and had a massive brake failure backing out of the bay, brake fluid everywhere.

If I could teach my Toyota to come pick me up when the American brands crap out on me (which is often) I would be a happy camper. Had to bum a ride from the mechanic.

F.

[Bill Glasheen]

This is merely a rare problem like those behind many a recall

Apparently you don't read the Wall Street Journal.

This reminds me of a statement Coach Terry Holland made when his college basketball team made it to the NCAA final four - AFTER Ralph Sampson left.

"I wasn't as bad a coach as folks said I was when Ralph was here, and I'm not as good a coach as people claim I am now that he's gone."

The hype goes both ways. Toyota really isn't that good. And they're not that bad.

Never bought one. Never will. Too lackluster in the performance dimension for me. Their niche is dependability. And you can't max out on both dependability AND performance. I've tried to explain that to my non-engineering son recently, but... Can't tell a teenager anything.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

2011 Acura TSX

Screw the Toyota

[Van Canna]

Check out the Suzuki kizashi

[IJ]

Are we playing guess what I'm thinking with your WSJ reference? May we see the source information? And no, I don't read WSJ.

You have quite a lot of vitriol for Toyota. Apparently this goes back well before the recalls--what's the deal? You never bought one, you never will--because they have lackluster performance. So... didn't you buy a Saturn? Was that really a high performing car, to an extent that justifies terrible reliability? You compared the Saturn and a Toyota back then and decided the Saturn was the better car?

All I can say is I've seen my family pour tons and tons into a chronically busted Jetta, and my partner and his dad and several others report that the BMW is great for a few years then everything explodes at multi-thousand dollars a pop.

As for your unteachable teenager, are you implying he's a Toyota fan? Or that he doesn't get that his higher performance car is gonna fall apart? If he appreciates Toyota's niche, maybe power to him. I don't think that reliability and resale is such a bad niche to own! Usually its the kids who want power and when they grow up they learn to appreciate value--and taking it easy on the highway.

[Bill Glasheen]

You aren't making any sense, Ian. That leads me to believe this is an emptional issue with you.

Are we playing guess what I'm thinking with your WSJ reference? May we see the source information? And no, I don't read WSJ.

Here's the problem, Ian. We're talking about a dozen articles and counting. Would you like me to post them all? If you don't have a subscription, then me providing a link won't do you any good. And copy/pasting all the articles would make the WSJ upset at George.

The bottom line is that:

1) There are many problems involving many vehicles. It isn't just runaway cars that kill people and failing breaks that kill people.

2) Toyota is now under investigation for not responding in a timely fashion to safety issues. That isn't just a customer satisfaction issue; that's violating United States law. To that end, Congress is now asking the Toyota CEO (Toyoda) to appear before Congress. At first he said he was too busy. But as of today, he's apparently finding religion. You'll have to read many articles to understand why.

You have quite a lot of vitriol for Toyota.

I have vitriol for any company that makes a product that is killing people, and FOR YEARS they blame it on the customer. That makes me insane, Ian.

And the fact that it's Toyota makes me more insane, as they ADVERTISE quality. They killed the British auto industry and crippled the American auto industry by producing dependable vehicles. However that reputation apparently isn't deserved any more.

In my world, you can't live on your reputation.

If I see you as a doctor, Ian, I don't give a schit how many lives you have saved. I want you to save MY life.

You never bought one, you never will--because they have lackluster performance.

Yes.

I also never bought a Volvo and never will. Their (alleged) niche is safety. Their engines suk. They beat the schit out of tiny displacement by turbocharging the hell out of their little sewing machines. That means a car that whines just to keep up with other cars on the road, and doesn't last very long. I don't like that.

I know what I want and I know what I don't want, Ian. Do you?

So... didn't you buy a Saturn?

The wife did.

All I can say is I've seen my family pour tons and tons into a chronically busted Jetta,

1) German cars aren't known for reliability.

2) Diesels are the exception to that rule. They are more dependable and they last twice as long as a conventional gas engine vehicle. I've explained why in many, many posts. Be glad to do the same for you if you wish.

3) More than half the cars sold in Europe now are diesels. What does that tell you?

and my partner and his dad and several others report that the BMW is great for a few years then everything explodes at multi-thousand dollars a pop.

Ask Van how his Bimmer is doing.

Which Bimmer are you talking about?

FWIW, all German vehicles have electric issues. It's as if Lucas died and was resurrected east of the UK.

As for your unteachable teenager, are you implying he's a Toyota fan?

Nope. Never did; never will. Why would you ask this??? Makes no sense.

He does like some of the Supras that his friends have hopped up. But Toyota doesn't make that vehicle any more. It doesn't fit with their niche, so they abandoned it.

My son drives a Civic SI that mom owns. He argues and argues about everything. He argues that Civic SI engines last "forever" and you can rev them to high RPM all the time and it doesn't matter because they are so good and yada yada yada.

I've tried and tried and tried to explain to him that the projected life of an engine isn't a function of mileage, but rather revolutions of the engine. So if you're driving the same distance at higher RPM...

But you can't tell a teenager anything.

He also likes the Subaru WRX STI. Now... I tried to tell him to get his mom to buy that car. Nope... All his friends had Hondas, and Hondas are perfect, and they drive in any kind of weather, and... and...

Can't tell a teenager anything.

Then he saw this video.

Ken Block - Subaru STI Gymkhana Practice

Try that in a Corolla, a Camry, or a Prius, Toyota boy!

Gosh, dad, I could have done this all over again, I would have asked mom to...

And then he drove to Wintergreen to ski just before a snowstorm, hoping to be able to ski on fresh powder. He followed my wife up there who had a medical conference up at the lodge. Well... Wife makes it to every seminar with her beat up old Subaru Forester. And son? He can't drive from the ski lodge to the slope to enjoy the two feet of fresh snow. Bummer...

Nope... Can't tell a teenager anything. You have to make them believe they discovered it on their own.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

Ask Van how his Bimmer is doing.

Best car I have ever owned...



Changed the oil once a year and keep on going.

Free maintenance for 4 years or 50 -K miles.

Not a bad deal.

[Van Canna]

So far so good. The 2011 model is a stunner.

[MikeK]

I'm still trying to figure out how the driver who killed his family failed to get the car stopped but someone had time to dial a cell phone. Hell, back when I was young and stupid we used to street race and if you had an auto you would floor the car while standing on the breaks. Never broke loose even using old drum breaks.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09 ... -tech_dept

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/10 ... -editorial

As far as teens and performance...
My son wants my RAV4. 269 HP from it's V6, plenty of head room and after this year's snow he loves the on demand 4WD. Oh, and one other thing, the insurance rates are better than he could get for a WRX. But then he's preparing to go into engineering.

Now I do wish Toyota would go back to their performance history. Having owned a 84 Corolla GT-S, which trounced my beloved VWs I miss those days and would love to to see and buy a 6 banger, RWD Supra again. One experience that the Corolla never managed to give me in the 10 years that we owned it was having to work on it along a highway at night. The boot of my VWs were always filled with a few spare parts, tool kit, two flash lights and a Chilton's guide.

[Van Canna]

[mhosea]

I'm still trying to figure out how the driver who killed his family failed to get the car stopped but someone had time to dial a cell phone. Hell, back when I was young and stupid we used to street race and if you had an auto you would floor the car while standing on the breaks. Never broke loose even using old drum breaks.

On the first point, yes, it is a mystery. Apparently, his first instinct was to ride the brakes, which we know that he burned out doing so. As Marcus (Stryke) used to have on his signature line here: more of what does not work will not work. Why his mind never moved on to ignition and transmission systems is hard to say. I assume the answer is panic and preoccupation with immediate obstacles, i.e. a failure to prioritize.

As for the second point, that's just physics. It's the same reason a skier can sit on a slope at 0mph and not slide, whereas if they fall at 80mph on the same butt on the same spot they don't stop for awhile. Possibly he might have been successful if he had slammed on the brakes when they were still cool, but I don't know what the anti-lock braking system will do at 90mph under full-throttle acceleration.