Exploring Seisan-ness

[Victor]

Last December the concept of Seisan-ness, trying to find the original underlying theme of the originator of a kata came to me. On Saturday, May 6th I was finally able to explore it with a group of other martial artists. We had great weather, a very nice clinic and a great luncheon to follow our workout.

I must acknowledge the contribution by Joe Swift of 12 versions of Okinawan Seisan kata. It is very interesting to see what some of the differing instructors are doing. Then another tape came Friday, a contribution of Sensei 'Doc' Mariner from New Jersey, in support of our efforts. He provided a copy of a group of young people performing Shorin Ryu Seisan, Eiko Konishi performing Seisan with accompanying 'Sanchin' style testing throughout the kata. This Seisan was quite similar to the Isshinryu Seisan kata. There was also Kyan student Joen Nakazato, and a number of other great Okinawan Seisan, too.

My hat's off to both of you for supporting this effort. The tapes gave a nice context to the following clinic.

But putting the people on the floor makes it come most live.

We were able to explore a number of different Seisan lines. There were two differing Isshinryu Seisan (my own Tom Lewis lineage and a friend's New Jersey Angi Uzeu lineage Seisans. We also explored Goju Seisan and Shotokan Hangetsu. Making everyone shut their eyes and turn off their video cameras, I also demonstrated the Ueichi Seisan kata (abet with my own humble abilities) , giving us a range of Seisan to explore.

Everyone ran their kata individually, and then as a group, where we modified the timing of some of the kata to demonstrate the commonality of the differing approaches.

I believe everyone was left with the same opinion I've come to hold, that it is most likely some where, some place, some time there was a common source of the Seisan-ness we find today.

We followed with an interesting look at applications to the opening sequence of Seisan. We explored that depending where you draw the lines as to what the section entails, you have a wide range of application possibilities. I tried to demonstrate how Goju's use of the Ippon Ken (Single Knuckle Punch) and the angled use of the Isshinryu Vertical fist have about the same striking potential. This opened side discussions about why one technique came into being compared to another technique. Always a fascinating discussion.

Then I tried to explore a common application of the first technique which transcends styles, making all of us 'brothers and or sisters' regardless of minor details of how we stand or hold our hands.

We were not there to teach each other a new version of our kata. We were not there to watch video tape. We were there to share and we did. I believe everyone left with a renewed commitment to explore our own forms further.

Not having more than scratched the surface of Seisan-ness this time, I intend to do this again, perhaps as long as others are interested in joining the fun.

While this can be done with many kata, (and most definitely should be done as time and energy permits) I have chosen Seisan simply because I believe it has the widest range of Okinawan stylists to consider. Other kata, such as the ever popular Nihanchi, tend to exclude some groups which do not practice it.

While I do not believe there is one kata which is utilitzed by everyone, I believe Seisan is as close as you'll come to that principle.

I strongly encourage others to do the same in your own areas.

Such clinics break down barriers between us all, and encourage us to find and learn from the common lessons each shares.

A result of these studies at this time, I would like to make some formal remarks on the study of Seisan-ness.

ON THE HISTORY OF SEISAN KATA

Depending on which source you consider Seisan may be one of the oldest karate exercises on Okinawa.

Among the statements one can make concerning its origin are:

It may be an indigenous Okinawan design.
It may have been imported from China by Matsumora
It may have been imported from China by Hiagonna
It may have been imported from China by Ueichi

And they all may be correct.

The name Seisan translates as '13'.

The name may refer to 13 specific defensive sequences within the form. (This topic is open to
Dispute as to where the 13 sequences start and stop.

The name may refer to the techniques of the form dispatching 13 different attackers.

The name may simply be significant for the numerical power of the number 13 within those
Cultures.

The name may refer to the 13 specific energies developed within the Chinese system of Tai
Chi Chaun.

Honestly, within one's training its very easy to believe what you've been told. Outside of one's training its difficult to establish what the exact truth to the origin or origins of Seisan kata are.

In that we cannot prove these assertions, they do not occupy our discussion.

THE SEARCH FOR SEISAN-NESS

But there is something of the Original Seisan kata which shines out. I call this Seisan-ness.

It appears most of the Okinawan instructors didn't hesitate to modify their instructors forms (or perhaps their instructors taught differing versions of those forms themselves).

Their thinking about the technique and application appear to have varied, yet when you look at the differing versions of the Okinawan kata by that name, you also see an underlying commonality of form and technique which still remains.

Obviously they felt justified to modify the sequence and technique of the kata. Yet at the same time they did not seem to need to change the underlying pattern or the majority of the techniques involved.

Looking at the versions of Seisan, you can see several broad groupings (made solely for comparison purposes in this discussion.

Those from the Shorin Ryu systems. Many which may source from Matsumora (or an even earlier source. These tend to be the longest of the versions.

Then those from the Goju ryu systems. These seem to source from Hiagonna Kanyro. And his studies in Fukyen China. There is a striking similarity to the first ½ of the Shorin versions, abet with unique Goju technique usage.

Finally and in no way least, there is the Ueichi Seisan. The length of the kata is somewhat between the Shorter Goju version and the longer Shorin related versions. Following Ueichi dictates, it does not employ the Okinawan Seikan but rather more unique striking principles and surfaces. But there still remain similarity in overall technique motion to the other patterns.

If you take the time to gather several martial artists together with their own Seisan kata you will be able to make these discoveries yourself.

I should be interesting to see how much there is common in the application of those shared sections even with the differences.

THE TRUTH ABOUT OKINAWAN KARATE

I believe there is another perspective to Seisan-ness to consider. The real manner in which Okinawan karate kept changing, evolving and growing.

Not to bore anyone, but there is a continual debate within the system I practice as to what is the correct manner in which to perform the kata, and which is the correct version. Much of this is compounded by the fact that the system originator kept changing the system kata himself.

But when we step back and look at the larger picture, you begin to get a different perspective than which is the correct version.

It appears the truth is there is no correct version. O' there was an original one, but there is a very strong case each of the versions is the 'correct' one for that instructor. Okinawa is not a large place. Their custom was to revere their ancestors (see Nagamine Shoshine's "Tales of the Okinwa's Great Masters", then read Bishop's 'Okinawan Karate' and conversly see how many of them kept moving between instructors. Apparently the commonly believed stories of Okinawa's Karate develoment is more complex than most mention.

There also was a period, before the more current area, when the instructors actually sent their students out to train with others, such as Soken, Hohen, or those same instructors sought out that instruction themselves.

Although a tremendous amount of the past was lost forever during the darkness from WWII, there remains enough to make me realize that the real picture of Okinawan karate was it kept changing.

Change and the attendant work and studies behind it, in my mind would be the greatest strength the Okinwan karateka had. The work and efforts were not to preserve a sterile, unchanging past. But rather it was change to create a future each martial artist could believe in and sell and promote.

With that goal, there efforts, seem to be to sell that which they had studied to the greatest extent. Before the modern era, they weren't under inspection for their efforts.

I suspect the reason for the changes was simply a different inspiration of an attack to be countered.

This probably puts Okinawan karate on a slippier ground than most would like to admit. Change isn't 'evil' but most likely necessary as a component of a 'live' art.

I will close with a brief analysis of the 12 Seisan Openings Joe Swift provided for my review. I see that common Seisan-ness present. But more important, while its there, each of the 12 is unique and different, too. I apologize if my terminology is confusing, or any mistakes I'm making from watching a film, but it is the best I can do at this time.

12 SEISAN OPENINGS

1. Seibukan Seisan

Left Foot Forward into Left Sheiko Dachi while executing a left side block
Twist the right foot forward, shifting into Left Zenkatsu dachi while executing a right reverse punch
Then execute a right side block.

2. Chotoku Kyan student Okuhira Bunei

Return left hand to side chamber and execute a right reverse punch followed with a right high side Left Foot Forward int Left Zenkatsu Dachi while executing a left high side block
block

3. Chintoryu Seisan

Left foot forward Left Bow and Arrow Stance while executing a left side block
Right Reverse punch - Right Side Block

4. Isshinryu - Tatsuo Shimabuku

Left foot forward Left Seisan Dachi while executing a left IR side block
Right vertical Reverse Punch

5. Old Shorinryu Version of the Kyudokan

Left foot froward Seisan Dachi - Double Outer Side Blocks
Right Reverse Punch while the left arm stays in outer side block
Followed with a Right Outer Side Block.

6. Araikai Seisan

Left foot froward (left Sanchin Dachi) with a left open hand circular side block (palm to the front)
Right palm thrust strike to the front

7. Ueichi Seisan

Left Foot forward (Sanchin Dachi) while executing a double outer open hand block (palms in)
Right Nukite strike to the front while the left arm stays in outer side block
Followed with a Right Outer Open hand Block (palm in).

8. Okinawan Kempo Seisan

Right foot forward into Right Seisan while executing a right side block with the left fist near the right elbow. This is followed by a left reverse punch (while the right hand remains in blocking position)

9. Tomari Seisan

Right foot forward into Deep Sanchin while executing a right side block with the left fist near the right elbow. This is followed by a left reverse punch (while the right hand remains in blocking position)

10. Goju Seisan (11. Goju Seisan)

Right foot forwrad right sanchin stance while executing a double outer side block (fists in)
Left reverse punch while the right arm stays in blocking position
Left hand rolls up into a double outer side block (fists in)

12. Ryueiryu Seisan

Left foot forward left Seisan stance while executing a left side block
Righe reverse punch

Respectfully submitted,

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu www.funkydragon.com/bushi

[gmattson]

Sounds like you had a very interesting day Victor. Wish I could have been there.

Perhaps you can schedule another session later in the year.

Best,
George Mattson

[Evan Pantazi]

Victor San,

Sounds like a great opportunity for learning and seeing that there is life beyond ones own Dojo. As I was not able to attend this one I would be most interested in the next meeting. Thank you for sharing your findings with those not fortunate enough to have attended.

------------------
Evan Pantazi
users.erols.com/kyusho

[Victor]

George and Evan,

Thank you for you suggestion, I would very much like to schedule another look into Seisan-ness.

While I have the avability of my dojo at the Boys and Girls Club anytime, I suspect I might try so towards the end of July or the beginning of August.

We might hold it in my back yard (2 acres) and interested individuals can bring their families. In that I have an additioal acre with 100 large bush blueberries (with over 100 gallons of blue berries on the bush each year) we might be able to hold our clinic and let the families have a picnic and a blue berry picking session.

Sort of a study of Synergy between Seisan and the Blue Berry. As the Robert Frost farm is 1/4 mile from my home in Derry, we might even have a reading from Frost on picking berries.

I'll stop now as I'm beginning to wax poetic.

In any case, I'll see what we can set up.

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu www.funkydragon.com/bushi

[BILLY B]

Bill-Sensei,

What evidence do you know of that Kanbun Uechi studied Goju-ryu? I ask because I always thought he was about the same age (or perhaps a bit older) as Chojun Miyagi. Since Miyagi "founded", named the system of Gojo-ryu. Of course I understand the system was there before Miyagi modified it, renamed it, and called it his own. I have often read, and heard(once from a guy who grew up in mainland Japan) that there were three types of Okinawa-te before Funakoshi ever visited the mainland - the "real" old days.(when they did'nt even HAVE underware!) One of these styles of Okinawa-te was Naha-te which is the area of Okinawa where Kanbun Uechi was from, and Naha-te resembled Goju-Ryu very much. (and obviously resembled Uechi-Ryu as well, the styles are similar as you know.) I have often wondered if kanbun would have learned Naha-te while growing up, the way Americans learn baseball. Miyagi would have had a similar childhood, I guess. So these tales of going to China to learn the REAL big-daddy kung fu take on a different perspective. The things he learned in China may have just been "crosstraining", which was all the rage at that time.....

(Am I accurate about Naha-te? I am going by memory...)

[Bill Glasheen]

Victor

What a great event.

I had the opportunity to study both the Uechi seisan and the Shorei Kai Goju seisan. What I found fascinating is that they were different, but markedly similar...until you did the first 180 degree turn. Then they didn't look like the same kata at all. Mars and Venus. Perhaps if I spent more time, I might be able to see some more parallels.

I also noted that there were no similarities whatsoever between Uechi Sanseiryu and Shorei Kai Goju Sanseiryu. Similarly, I see no similarities between a Fuzhou Suparinpei, and various Goju Suparinpei.

In his studies in rural Fuzhou, Simon Lailey came to the conclusion that the names with numbers (seisan, sanseiryu, seiryu, suparinpei) were popular names for kata, and not necessarily indiciative of a kata unique to the number.

In the case of Uechi vs. Goju seisan, I see some material with a common origin. Like evolutionary studies, trying to extrapolate back to what this means is difficult. Does it mean that they all came from one form and only one person "is doing it right?" As much as a few who know better would like to think, I don't believe it. Frankly I'm not convinced of a single lineage theory, like the theory that we evolved from the apes. For instance, it's possible that Kanbun studied Goju before and/or after his trip to Fuzhou, and then choreographed his own seisan because you weren't cool as a system unless you had one. He took a few good ideas from what he picked up from the Goju folks, and applied the techniques he learned from Shushiwa. I'm not saying this is what happened, but it could have. When you talk to some of the old Okinawan masters, some of them will tell you that the seisan kata evolved dramatically from the way it was to the way it is taught today (Gordi Breyette relating conversations with Takamiyagi).

So in the end it seems that the most we can conclude is that there was a body of knowledge out there, and various groups tried to preserve it with a kata they would call seisan. The commonality may be nothing more than the collection of ideas and the name. But from that you could still get an idea of what "seisan-ness" is all about.

Great stuff, Victor.

- Bill

[Joe Swift]

Hi Billy B.

I'm not Bill G. Sensei, but my own two yen.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BILLY B:
What evidence do you know of that Kanbun Uechi studied Goju-ryu?

There is none, at least not that I know of!

This is why Bill G. said something like "I'm not saying that this happened, but it could have," a disclaimer of sorts, if you will.

I ask because I always thought he was about the same age (or perhaps a bit older) as Chojun Miyagi. Since Miyagi "founded", named the system of Gojo-ryu. Of course I understand the system was there before Miyagi modified it, renamed it, and called it his own.

Well, it all depends upon who you talk to. My own beliefs, based upon my own research in Japan and Okinawa, that Higashionna Kanryo MAY have only really had/taught 4 kata, namely Sanchin, Seisan, Sanseiru and Pechurin (aka Suparinpei). There are those darned 4 same kata again, eh?!

Anyway, recent evidence, such as a record found in China of Higashionna's return to Ryukyu, points to his being in Fuzhou for only about 3 years. What was that old saying about kata and years? "Hito Kata San Nen" (3 years for 1 kata)!

My own conviction at this point in time is that Higashionna learned only those 4 kata, from Aragaki Seisho and/or Kogusuku Taite before heading to China. And upon returning, only taught those 4.

This is "sort of" corroborated by Kyoda Juhatsu (Miyagi's senior) syllabus of Sanchin, Seisan, Sanseiru, Pechurin, Jion and Nepai. The last two were learned from other sources however. Another direct Higashionna student named Ura Soki, also stated that Higashionna only ever taught 4 kata and that modern Goju has too many!

Anyway, this is what forms my belief that Miyagi Chojun introduced from other sources (or perhaps created himself) the other Goju kata, namely Saifa, Seiunchin, Shisochin, Seipai and Kururunfa. This does NOT in any way invalidate these kata, just that they may not have been taught by Higashionna Kanryo.

I have often read, and heard (once from a guy who grew up in mainland Japan) that there were three types of Okinawa-te before Funakoshi ever visited the mainland - the "real" old days.(when they did'nt even HAVE underware!) One of these styles of Okinawa-te was Naha-te which is the area of Okinawa where Kanbun Uechi was from, and Naha-te resembled Goju-Ryu very much....<snip for length>

I thought Kanbun was from northern Okinawa, up near Nago or Motobu... no? Anyone more "up" on Uechiryu history than little old me?

Anyway, the old "Shuri-di, Naha-di, Tomari-di" thing, eh? Well, these terms were not really officially used until January 1927, when a bunch of political activists went and called karate that for Kano Jigoro's visit to Okinawa in that year.

Gima Shinkin, student of Itosu, Yabu, and later of Funakoshi, also said once that when growing up in Okinawa, that he never heard those terms used, until Mabuni Kenwa came up and told him and Funakoshi what had happened in Okinawa. Apparently Funakoshi could not hide his surprise at this!

Also, in a recent conversation with Murakami Katsumi, a direct student of Chibana Choshin, Kyoda Juhatsu, Inoue Motokatsu, Toyama Kanken, Shimabuku Taro (just to name but a few of his karate kobudo teachers), told myself and my good friend Mario McKenna of Nagasaki, Japan, that he also thought it was very strange how people keep trying to divide what is essentiually one art into geographical locations.

Anyway, not trying to pick on you Billy B., just trying to set some facts straight and give my own two yen worth here.

Perhaps if there is interest, we can carry out this conversation in further detail under a different heading?

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.

Joe Swift
Mushinkan Dojo
Kanazawa, Japan

[This message has been edited by Joe Swift (edited May 13, 2000).]