Has anyone read Hidy Ochiai's translation of The Book of Five Rings? It is 248 pages, so I suspect there is a lot of interpretation. I hope he separates it from the translation, unlike Kaufman's.
I would love to here what people think before I consider buying it.
Rick
Hidy Ochiai's translation of The Book of Five Rings?
Moderator: Available
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Hidy Ochiai's translation of The Book of Five Rings?
Rick
I've got several translations at home. I'll have to see who wrote what. If I have his book, I'll take a look.
Your comments remind me of a conversation I had with a "purist" some time back about the various English translation versions of Go Rin No Sho. I can remember that this fellow had the same prejudice that you seem to have - that one should stick to relatively literal translations and allow the reader to pick up what the language means. I guess I have mixed feelings about this. Reading a translation of this book reminds me of reading various books of Shakespeare's plays. To fully appreciate the latter, one needs to have lived at that period of time and understood the contemporary language, issues, and humor. Without a knowledge of that, half the stuff goes right over your head. I guess a good compromise is to have a translation of Book of Five Rings be a lot like a well-written book on a Shakespeare play where you have unadulterated text above and profuse footnotes below. That way you can separate translation from interpretation.
Ultimately thought the ONLY way to be a purist is to read the original Japanese. There is always something lost in ANY translation.
- Bill
I've got several translations at home. I'll have to see who wrote what. If I have his book, I'll take a look.
Your comments remind me of a conversation I had with a "purist" some time back about the various English translation versions of Go Rin No Sho. I can remember that this fellow had the same prejudice that you seem to have - that one should stick to relatively literal translations and allow the reader to pick up what the language means. I guess I have mixed feelings about this. Reading a translation of this book reminds me of reading various books of Shakespeare's plays. To fully appreciate the latter, one needs to have lived at that period of time and understood the contemporary language, issues, and humor. Without a knowledge of that, half the stuff goes right over your head. I guess a good compromise is to have a translation of Book of Five Rings be a lot like a well-written book on a Shakespeare play where you have unadulterated text above and profuse footnotes below. That way you can separate translation from interpretation.
Ultimately thought the ONLY way to be a purist is to read the original Japanese. There is always something lost in ANY translation.
- Bill
Hidy Ochiai's translation of The Book of Five Rings?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick Wilson:
[snip]
I hope he separates it from the translation, unlike Kaufman's.
[snip]
Rick<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Indeed! It would appear that Mr. Kaufman doesn't even read or speak Japanese, and so merely distilled already translated versions into one (along with his commentary). Have heard that it is dreadful!
Will keep my eyes out for the new translation though.
Be well,
Jigme
------------------
Jigme Chobang
aikibudokai@yahoo.com
[snip]
I hope he separates it from the translation, unlike Kaufman's.
[snip]
Rick<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Indeed! It would appear that Mr. Kaufman doesn't even read or speak Japanese, and so merely distilled already translated versions into one (along with his commentary). Have heard that it is dreadful!
Will keep my eyes out for the new translation though.
Be well,
Jigme
------------------
Jigme Chobang
aikibudokai@yahoo.com
-
Ted Dinwiddie
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Charlottesville,VA,USA
Hidy Ochiai's translation of The Book of Five Rings?
As a foreign language major (german) I have a some experience with translations, both reading and performing, as well as reading the original in its mother tongue.
Though my skills are quite dormant, I was once quite good at reading and comprehending German. I have read Goethe's FAUST about 10 or 12 times. In German, and several different translations. German is not my mother tongue so I HAD to have missed some nuance and the piece was written hundreds of years ago so I had to have missed even more. Each translation was different and lent a different slant to the work. Translation itself requires some degree of this. Differences between cultures, intuitive understanding and context make this inevitable. One must allow himself to interpret a work the way he understands it for the literary quality to be at all preserved. Though I have read some very stilted translations that revealed some interesting aspects.
The aggregate of having read multiple versions, multiple times has probably been the best way to achieve a good understanding, though with meisterwerke such as FAUST one could go on for the rest of time finding new interpretations. I would submit GO RIN NO SHO would fall into the same category, as does Sun Tzu's ART OF WAR.
Buy the book and read it. Collect versions of the translation and read them all, several times. If you decide to tackle the native language I salute you. Once your knowledge od Japanese begins to become competent, reading a book you have already become familiar with in translation is an excellent way of adding to your intuitive understanding of the language.
Enjoy!!!
ted
Though my skills are quite dormant, I was once quite good at reading and comprehending German. I have read Goethe's FAUST about 10 or 12 times. In German, and several different translations. German is not my mother tongue so I HAD to have missed some nuance and the piece was written hundreds of years ago so I had to have missed even more. Each translation was different and lent a different slant to the work. Translation itself requires some degree of this. Differences between cultures, intuitive understanding and context make this inevitable. One must allow himself to interpret a work the way he understands it for the literary quality to be at all preserved. Though I have read some very stilted translations that revealed some interesting aspects.
The aggregate of having read multiple versions, multiple times has probably been the best way to achieve a good understanding, though with meisterwerke such as FAUST one could go on for the rest of time finding new interpretations. I would submit GO RIN NO SHO would fall into the same category, as does Sun Tzu's ART OF WAR.
Buy the book and read it. Collect versions of the translation and read them all, several times. If you decide to tackle the native language I salute you. Once your knowledge od Japanese begins to become competent, reading a book you have already become familiar with in translation is an excellent way of adding to your intuitive understanding of the language.
Enjoy!!!
ted
-
Rick Wilson
Hidy Ochiai's translation of The Book of Five Rings?
Bill:
I acknowledge that translation is a difficult art. Not speaking a second language it is one I only understand by theory. I know that it is even more difficult when you are translating something outside of your field of expertise. A friend of mine worked for a company dealing with Russia and found quickly that engineers needed to translate much of the material because drastic changes in the intent appeared when they didn't! I also agree that dated materials and cultures also have an effect. This may require that the translator give an interpretation if the passage is going to mean something today.
However, (you knew there had to be one) there are areas in Kaufman's translation that clearly are his extrapolations and personal interpretations yet they are presented as the words of Musashi. This leads me to question the balance of the work.
Yes, I would much prefer that there is a direct translation followed by the translators interpretations and own thoughts. Jwing-Ming Yang did this in his work Tai Chi Secrets of the Ancient Masters. He translated the writing and then wrote, often at length compared to the original text, his own interpretation.
I was happy to hear that Hidy Ochiai did a translation. A martial artist and from the same culture, although not time.
Jigme: UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!
Ted: Very sound advise.
Rick
I acknowledge that translation is a difficult art. Not speaking a second language it is one I only understand by theory. I know that it is even more difficult when you are translating something outside of your field of expertise. A friend of mine worked for a company dealing with Russia and found quickly that engineers needed to translate much of the material because drastic changes in the intent appeared when they didn't! I also agree that dated materials and cultures also have an effect. This may require that the translator give an interpretation if the passage is going to mean something today.
However, (you knew there had to be one) there are areas in Kaufman's translation that clearly are his extrapolations and personal interpretations yet they are presented as the words of Musashi. This leads me to question the balance of the work.
Yes, I would much prefer that there is a direct translation followed by the translators interpretations and own thoughts. Jwing-Ming Yang did this in his work Tai Chi Secrets of the Ancient Masters. He translated the writing and then wrote, often at length compared to the original text, his own interpretation.
I was happy to hear that Hidy Ochiai did a translation. A martial artist and from the same culture, although not time.
Jigme: UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!
Ted: Very sound advise.
Rick
