Revised (in bold italics), Jan 11, 2001
Last week Rich (one of my students) had the honor of working out with a very fine karateka and Marine to boot. Snip This individual has had the opportunity to work out in Okinawa for years, and also the opportunity to work with Toyama sensei.
Say what you will, but Toyama sensei has "been there." He's got much to share with us concerning his memories of days with Uechi Kanbun. And I have every reason to believe that he teaches as he was taught. But...boy did Rich catalogue some "differences." Most of them were niggling details, like whether you supinate vs. pronate on the arm rubbing exercise at any one point, but this "version" of the style appeared dramatically different from my own biased perspective. And why did his son, Uechi Kanei, not do things the same way? Why would Toyama sensei do a wauke with arms almost completely out, and Kanbun's son do it with elbows closer in? Or for that matter, why would Uechi Kanei not breathe out with his sanchin strikes? Or essentially state that people should breathe naturally?
There was a period in my karate training where I was obsessed with "the right" way. I thought what a pity it was we didn't have an ability to film Uechi Kanbun before he died. Then we would know the true way. But exposure to the Okinawans changed a lot of that. Viewing the tape of Mattson and Tomoyose visiting Uechi Kanbun's first dojo (in Wakayama) changed all that. You think your neighbor's Uechi is different... Check it out. And frankly my lack of contact with many of the mainstream in Uechi ryu led me - out of necessity - to follow my own path to martial education. I don't regret it either.
We are all unique. I've run across more than a few good Marines who prided themselves in maintaining the way they were taught. It fits in with what makes them...good Marines. And over the years, there's this person within me (and probably many of you) who always asked Why? and always experimented with and researched other ways of doing things. It fits in with what makes me...a good researcher.
Snip...Bad, self-deprecating joke that didn't come across well.
So where does that leave the style? I've heard of folks speak of "The death of the ryu." Is it dead, or more alive than ever? What is it that people are trying to preserve, anyway? Is it the way we do a technique or kata, or the way we approach it? Is it the preservation of the style or the preservation of the substance? Is it the work of art or the artist? Is it the matter or the mindset?
Such is my perspective.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited January 11, 2001).]
Who owns The Holy Grail?
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Bill Glasheen
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Who owns The Holy Grail?
Is the grail useful full or empty?
david
david
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Malcolm Wagner
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Who owns The Holy Grail?
Sensei,
Does it help much to know that the differences you speak of also exist in the majority of martial-styles out there?
I study Isshinryu under two different Sensei, who came up under two distinct interpretations of the style; one lineage influenced by a marine named Arcenio Advincula, the other from the son-in-law of our founder, Angi Uezu. There are many differences in the interpretations, but no more that you would expect between any two men with their own body styles, education, cultural background, etc.
I believe the founders of our respective styles studied together for a time, even rumors to the effect that they were very close friends. I believe these two men created their styles without thought to what the establishment thought they should be doing. While the other styles were worried about creating "Japanese School-boy karate", these men went back to the real stuff. Original students of Tatsuo Shimabuku Sensei even went as far as to leave him when he anounced that he was changing, what many believed to be ,the foundations of karate, namely, changing the corkscrew-punch to the vertical, as well as shortening the stances to better accomodate the American marines who made up the bulk of his students at the time. (Nice run-on sentence huh?)
I ,for one, have never seen any two of my sudents perform the karate, that they learned from me, the same way. I prefer it this way because I see enough of me in the mirror everyday, don't need a lot of little mal-bots running around the neighborhood;-)
Isshinryu is lucky enough to have been able to film Shimabuku Sensei, although out of his prime (whatever prime means), performing all of our kata---but you wouldn't believe the differences I see in his kata and the kata of his first, and second-generation students.
I learned how to print from my kindergarten teacher, but I bet my cursive looks nothing even close to hers.
Mal
Does it help much to know that the differences you speak of also exist in the majority of martial-styles out there?
I study Isshinryu under two different Sensei, who came up under two distinct interpretations of the style; one lineage influenced by a marine named Arcenio Advincula, the other from the son-in-law of our founder, Angi Uezu. There are many differences in the interpretations, but no more that you would expect between any two men with their own body styles, education, cultural background, etc.
I believe the founders of our respective styles studied together for a time, even rumors to the effect that they were very close friends. I believe these two men created their styles without thought to what the establishment thought they should be doing. While the other styles were worried about creating "Japanese School-boy karate", these men went back to the real stuff. Original students of Tatsuo Shimabuku Sensei even went as far as to leave him when he anounced that he was changing, what many believed to be ,the foundations of karate, namely, changing the corkscrew-punch to the vertical, as well as shortening the stances to better accomodate the American marines who made up the bulk of his students at the time. (Nice run-on sentence huh?)
I ,for one, have never seen any two of my sudents perform the karate, that they learned from me, the same way. I prefer it this way because I see enough of me in the mirror everyday, don't need a lot of little mal-bots running around the neighborhood;-)
Isshinryu is lucky enough to have been able to film Shimabuku Sensei, although out of his prime (whatever prime means), performing all of our kata---but you wouldn't believe the differences I see in his kata and the kata of his first, and second-generation students.
I learned how to print from my kindergarten teacher, but I bet my cursive looks nothing even close to hers.
Mal
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paul giella
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Who owns The Holy Grail?
A history lesson - art history, that is - may have something to teach us here. After the Renaissance in Europe painters and sculptors believed that art had reached its absolute zenith with Michelangelo, Rafael,Botticelli, etc. (the painters, not the turtles). The best any student artist could hope was to be able to paint in the manner of the great masters. Hence, for a period of about fifty years after the Renaissance, European art was dominated by the Mannerist school. No one dared to try anything new because to depart from the lessons and rules laid down by the masters was to practice a dangerous hubris. The Romantic school finally emerged to break the mold. Likewise in the fields of philosophy and even science there was a rigid mindset that taught that all there was to ever know had been taught by Aristotle (and the later Aristotelians). Just think where we would be now in the arts and sciences if no one had dared to break the mold. In fact, some would say, the West's willingness to break the mold, as compared to the East's great reluctance to do so, may account for why the western world pulled ahead (at least insofar as innovations are concerned)over the past three centuries.... Anyway; what does this have to do with our karate? If we believe that the ancients (including the 'recent ancient', Kanbun Uechi) knew all there is to be known, then by all means we should strive only to discern and emulate the style of the "perfect one". If, on the other hand, we view Kanbun as one talented teacher in a long line of past, present and future teachers, some more skilled than others, some of genius rank, others quite mediocre, then we can accept and allow for innovation and experimentation. That which does not grow, dies, it is said... I'm for keeping Uechi-ryu alive.
Who owns The Holy Grail?
Paul:
Excellent post.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
In Kanbun’s era, he performed his movements as he believed were best for his abilities. But in our era, with "modern science" we now know more about the human body than ever before. How and why Kanei changed the breathing could not, in his era, been medically proven to be superior to his fathers method.
When I see Uechika perform Seisan using the “tssst” breathing, their movements appear labored and at the end, they are usually “out of breath.” It further annoys me to learn that Kanbun did not breath that way.
I believe that we should be doing what is correct for our body mechanics. If it means that we must rejuvenate the old ways, then so be it, as long as it is medically sound for our bodies to perform that way.
However, if there are new principles that we must learn, then we should evolve.
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Len Testa
Excellent post.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Knowing how to properly breath will allow me to be able to perform at maximum efficiency without damaging my own body.What is it that people are trying to preserve, anyway? Is it the way we do a technique or kata, or the way we approach it?
In Kanbun’s era, he performed his movements as he believed were best for his abilities. But in our era, with "modern science" we now know more about the human body than ever before. How and why Kanei changed the breathing could not, in his era, been medically proven to be superior to his fathers method.
When I see Uechika perform Seisan using the “tssst” breathing, their movements appear labored and at the end, they are usually “out of breath.” It further annoys me to learn that Kanbun did not breath that way.
I believe that we should be doing what is correct for our body mechanics. If it means that we must rejuvenate the old ways, then so be it, as long as it is medically sound for our bodies to perform that way.
However, if there are new principles that we must learn, then we should evolve.
------------------
Len Testa
Who owns The Holy Grail?
I hope I haven't missed it somewhere, but may I hear how Kanbun breathed? I'm dying to know. I always have a bunch of students who want to modify it one way or another and I'm never sure how much leeway to offer. I know what some acceptable methods are for training, at least for me; what are they for testing?
On the is-revision-destruction-or-evolution? front, I have to say that one of my favorite projects would be doing a mixed old and new seisan bunkai on my next test. We would do about every other technique traditionally, and every other one with a new interpretation, so that every technique was done two ways.
Thoughts?
On the is-revision-destruction-or-evolution? front, I have to say that one of my favorite projects would be doing a mixed old and new seisan bunkai on my next test. We would do about every other technique traditionally, and every other one with a new interpretation, so that every technique was done two ways.
Thoughts?
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Bill Glasheen
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Who owns The Holy Grail?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
There was a very interesting Dateline on last Friday. It was about a teacher in Nova Scotia (Clayton Johnson I believe) that was put in jail for 5 years for killing his wife before forensic experts deduced the real cause of his wife's death - a freak falling accident. Two women who were friends of the deceased stupidly cleaned up the crime scene before police could investigate. So absent primary evidence, they became the most important keys to the crime scene. They swore they saw blood spattered all over the walls of the basement. Later on, advanced forensic techniques proved there never was blood on those walls. Memory is a funny thing...especially when you disapprove of the quick re-marriage of the husband of the deceased. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Am I trying to be disagreeable, Len? No. I think you know me better. Am I trying to defend a particular method? No, but I do see others developing an attitude that their way is a better way. I could agree that it is a good way, but I stop short of endorsing the practice of criticizing other possibly useful methods when the reasons for the preferences may be body type, technique preference, or lack of understanding of other methods.
In the end it isn't the breathing method I'm trying to highlight - it's the process going on now that is steering large numbers to a specific method. It's...fascinating.
- Bill
I've seen a few have problems. And I've seen folks using other breathing methods (exhale during strikes, kiai, dragon breathing, etc.) also have problems. I've never had a problem, and I've worked with many breathing methods. Perhaps the "poster children" that the anti-soft-method folks like to bring up aren't doing it correctly. It doesn't take much looking to find someone in the karate world that doesn't know what they are doing. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quoteWhen I see Uechika perform Seisan using the “tssst” breathing, their movements appear labored and at the end, they are usually “out of breath.”
This is a very interesting statement. There are actually two people living today that - I believe - saw and worked with Uechi Kanbun. There may or may not be written records. Can you or anyone else give me the sources that document how Kanbun breathed in his kata? I'm sincerely interested.It further annoys me to learn that Kanbun did not breath that way.
There was a very interesting Dateline on last Friday. It was about a teacher in Nova Scotia (Clayton Johnson I believe) that was put in jail for 5 years for killing his wife before forensic experts deduced the real cause of his wife's death - a freak falling accident. Two women who were friends of the deceased stupidly cleaned up the crime scene before police could investigate. So absent primary evidence, they became the most important keys to the crime scene. They swore they saw blood spattered all over the walls of the basement. Later on, advanced forensic techniques proved there never was blood on those walls. Memory is a funny thing...especially when you disapprove of the quick re-marriage of the husband of the deceased. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
An interesting statement that I can't disagree with. But where does that bring us? Are there breathing methods that you or others think damage the body (other than a Valsalva while lifting heavy objects)?Knowing how to properly breath will allow me to be able to perform at maximum efficiency without damaging my own body.
Am I trying to be disagreeable, Len? No. I think you know me better. Am I trying to defend a particular method? No, but I do see others developing an attitude that their way is a better way. I could agree that it is a good way, but I stop short of endorsing the practice of criticizing other possibly useful methods when the reasons for the preferences may be body type, technique preference, or lack of understanding of other methods.
In the end it isn't the breathing method I'm trying to highlight - it's the process going on now that is steering large numbers to a specific method. It's...fascinating.
- Bill
Who owns The Holy Grail?
Hear is a quote which I think sums it up quite nicely:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
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maurice richard libby
ronin @ large
moose jaw, toronto
[This message has been edited by mori (edited January 09, 2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
maurice"Like it or not this process of cultural adaptation and technical modification is the only true karate tradition (Paul Okami 1999)."
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maurice richard libby
ronin @ large
moose jaw, toronto
[This message has been edited by mori (edited January 09, 2001).]
Who owns The Holy Grail?
The part that has always bothered me, across the board, about different styles has been teaching everyone to fit the same mold. Finding a sensei who understands that everyone is an individual, different and therefore must modify/adapt techniques to themselves at any one given time.
Years ago, I was in better shape, studying a number of different arts and things just "fit" a certain way. One of my criteria when looking for a dojo to return to, was that the sensei(s) have that certain understanding and teach accordingly.
Watching someone like Gary Khoury versus someone like Bobby Spoon versus someone like Chip Quimby versus someone like Margaret Chojin all perform their techniques impeccably, but more importantly impeccably for them has made me feel very comfortable. Four different sensei, the same style, the same techniques, four different (minor) variations on a theme. They not only do what's correct for the style, but they do what's correct for themselves and that's much more important when the proverbial feces hits the rotating device on the asphalt of the "real world" (tm). They are all Uechi-ka, but even though you watch them do the same techniques, they aren't all the same... they aren't all shoved into some mystical, magical robotized mold. It's obvious that when they practice a technique, it's what works for them.
I'm about the same height as Gary Khoury, but he's got at least a couple of inches of arm and leg reach on me... alternately, at this point in my life, I've probably got about 60-70#s on him! (Hmmmm, should that be a
or a 
?)
Anyway, no matter who's teaching me, they can correct many technical aspects of my martial arts, but they will benefit me more (and that's what I care about after all, my own benefit... selfish bastahd ain't I
) if they take into consideration my size, body style, where I'm at on the long road back, and ultimately how will the technique/application work for me. It takes an intimate knowledge of the style for someone to make those kinds of adjustments for each student while maintaining the integrity of the style. From what I've read... from my understanding... that's what innovators and masters such as Uechi Kanbun and Miyagi Chojin did and were capable of doing with their students. It speaks to all aspects of one's kara-te, but is only logical and reasonable. I mean, think about it... At ~6'2" and XXX#s , my sanchin stance will not be exactly the same as say a Margaret Chojin-sensei who stands 5'nothin' and weighs 1/3rd as much! My stance, if done properly will be just as good and just as valid, but it won't ever fit into her footsteps. A crude example, I know, but the fact is that by working with me and my current state of affairs, someone like Chojin-sensei, Spoon-sensei, or Khoury-sensei can help me do the very best that I can at this point in time... and it will still be Uechi-ryu. On the other hand, another sensei may move this, push that, contort the other, demand a "tsssst", urge a "slight holding of the breath" (while I'm turning various shades of blue and purple), all in an effort to robotize me into their ideal of a "perfect" Uechi mold. As it is now, I go home and have fun working on little nuances as well as the "big" stuff... Do you think I'd enjoy it if it didn't "feel right"? If it didn't "fit" me? Perhaps others would, but I wouldn't. And I doubt I'd be able to utilize being in that mold if I had to do something in a real confrontation. Heck, in a real confrontation, it doesn't look like the stuff you've practiced in the dojo anyway, so I might as well be practicing the body mechanics of the style that I will feel naturally comfortable with if the need arises!
Kara-te, IMNSHO, is as individual as every person doing it... and it makes no difference what "style" is being taught/learned. Even though a style is "individualized" by each different practitioner, it will endure if the underlying basic principles are sound and valid. It will also be more useful to more people (again IMNSHO) if they are taught by sensei who can keep the standards of the fundamentals and basics high, yet allow for the individual nuances that make an art your very own.
Years ago, I was in better shape, studying a number of different arts and things just "fit" a certain way. One of my criteria when looking for a dojo to return to, was that the sensei(s) have that certain understanding and teach accordingly.
Watching someone like Gary Khoury versus someone like Bobby Spoon versus someone like Chip Quimby versus someone like Margaret Chojin all perform their techniques impeccably, but more importantly impeccably for them has made me feel very comfortable. Four different sensei, the same style, the same techniques, four different (minor) variations on a theme. They not only do what's correct for the style, but they do what's correct for themselves and that's much more important when the proverbial feces hits the rotating device on the asphalt of the "real world" (tm). They are all Uechi-ka, but even though you watch them do the same techniques, they aren't all the same... they aren't all shoved into some mystical, magical robotized mold. It's obvious that when they practice a technique, it's what works for them.
I'm about the same height as Gary Khoury, but he's got at least a couple of inches of arm and leg reach on me... alternately, at this point in my life, I've probably got about 60-70#s on him! (Hmmmm, should that be a
or a ?)Anyway, no matter who's teaching me, they can correct many technical aspects of my martial arts, but they will benefit me more (and that's what I care about after all, my own benefit... selfish bastahd ain't I
) if they take into consideration my size, body style, where I'm at on the long road back, and ultimately how will the technique/application work for me. It takes an intimate knowledge of the style for someone to make those kinds of adjustments for each student while maintaining the integrity of the style. From what I've read... from my understanding... that's what innovators and masters such as Uechi Kanbun and Miyagi Chojin did and were capable of doing with their students. It speaks to all aspects of one's kara-te, but is only logical and reasonable. I mean, think about it... At ~6'2" and XXX#s , my sanchin stance will not be exactly the same as say a Margaret Chojin-sensei who stands 5'nothin' and weighs 1/3rd as much! My stance, if done properly will be just as good and just as valid, but it won't ever fit into her footsteps. A crude example, I know, but the fact is that by working with me and my current state of affairs, someone like Chojin-sensei, Spoon-sensei, or Khoury-sensei can help me do the very best that I can at this point in time... and it will still be Uechi-ryu. On the other hand, another sensei may move this, push that, contort the other, demand a "tsssst", urge a "slight holding of the breath" (while I'm turning various shades of blue and purple), all in an effort to robotize me into their ideal of a "perfect" Uechi mold. As it is now, I go home and have fun working on little nuances as well as the "big" stuff... Do you think I'd enjoy it if it didn't "feel right"? If it didn't "fit" me? Perhaps others would, but I wouldn't. And I doubt I'd be able to utilize being in that mold if I had to do something in a real confrontation. Heck, in a real confrontation, it doesn't look like the stuff you've practiced in the dojo anyway, so I might as well be practicing the body mechanics of the style that I will feel naturally comfortable with if the need arises!Kara-te, IMNSHO, is as individual as every person doing it... and it makes no difference what "style" is being taught/learned. Even though a style is "individualized" by each different practitioner, it will endure if the underlying basic principles are sound and valid. It will also be more useful to more people (again IMNSHO) if they are taught by sensei who can keep the standards of the fundamentals and basics high, yet allow for the individual nuances that make an art your very own.
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RACastanet
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Who owns The Holy Grail?
Hello all. Yes, I saw many differences in the style of Uechi that I practice versus the style of Uechi my friend practices. However, I saw many, many more similarities.
Ian, you will apreciate that the seisan bunkai I saw does not include a sword attack. How about that. The jump is there but it is against an unarmed attacker. You would like it, but I doubt that I could duplicate it to show you.
The kata names were not 'numeric'. Again, I do not remember the names but the # 36 was not one of them I believe.
Breathing..... do whatever is correct for you.
I was thrilled that I could see some of the ways of Toyama sensei. Some of what I saw was on a video made in Toyama sensei's dojo so it is authentic. I have much to consider but as a 'small fry' I will not try to interpret anything, only try to incorporate some of the things that would work well for me. Hopefully I will get invited back again someday soon to further broaden my Uechi-ryu knowledge. I liked what I saw.
Rich
Ian, you will apreciate that the seisan bunkai I saw does not include a sword attack. How about that. The jump is there but it is against an unarmed attacker. You would like it, but I doubt that I could duplicate it to show you.
The kata names were not 'numeric'. Again, I do not remember the names but the # 36 was not one of them I believe.
Breathing..... do whatever is correct for you.
I was thrilled that I could see some of the ways of Toyama sensei. Some of what I saw was on a video made in Toyama sensei's dojo so it is authentic. I have much to consider but as a 'small fry' I will not try to interpret anything, only try to incorporate some of the things that would work well for me. Hopefully I will get invited back again someday soon to further broaden my Uechi-ryu knowledge. I liked what I saw.
Rich
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Brian Barry
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Who owns The Holy Grail?
It sounds as if you're saying that karate is like a classical symphony. A theme is played, then numerous variations are made. The theme isn't destroyed, however. After all is said and done, the orchestra repeats the original theme. But now we have all sorts of variations, making the material fit each individual like a glove.
--Brian
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"Evil flourishes where it is not opposed, and those who are able to oppose it must protect those who cannot protect themselves."
--Brian
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"Evil flourishes where it is not opposed, and those who are able to oppose it must protect those who cannot protect themselves."
Who owns The Holy Grail?
Brian Barry-san,
Yes! Theme and variations is exactly where I was at, but avoiding actually saying because I didn't want to confuse the issue...
(First degree was a B.A. in Jazz and Classical Composition from Berklee College of Music... )
[This message has been edited by Panther (edited January 10, 2001).]
Yes! Theme and variations is exactly where I was at, but avoiding actually saying because I didn't want to confuse the issue...
(First degree was a B.A. in Jazz and Classical Composition from Berklee College of Music...
)[This message has been edited by Panther (edited January 10, 2001).]
Who owns The Holy Grail?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Original quote by Panther
Heck, in a real confrontation, it doesn't look like the stuff you've practiced in the dojo anyway, so I might as well be practicing the body mechanics of the style that I will feel naturally comfortable with if the need arises!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If we practice anything in the dojo that will not work in a real situation then we are just "going through the motions" for exercise only.
Why practice kata, kumite, and bunkai if it does not teach you how to defend an attack?
If your breathing is different in a confrontation, than it is when practicing in the dojo, then why do we practice it that way? If I believed that it was different, I would have to assume that kickboxing, wrestling, and sparring should be the only curriculum. You certainly will learn how to breathe, after going a few rounds while being hit numerous times to the body, trying to attack and retreat. You will learn what technique works and what doesn't work.
In the dojo, we train with knowledgeable martial artists who know how to properly punch, kick and block. The technique is performed the same each time with no variation and the difference between a black belt and a brown belt is the speed of the technique. When a “thug” confronts you, the attacks will not be as precise as you are accustomed to seeing in the dojo. Let us face it folks, you will see haymakers and improperly executed techniques thrown your way when you are in the "real world”ä. Biting, spitting and clawing are not to be used in the dojo? We cannot use those improper ways of attack! Come on!
Do you think for one second that your adversary will not make these techniques part of his arsenal?
How many times have you seen a tori stop his execution of a technique because the uke did not make the correct attack???
Would you freeze when confronted by a less knowledgeable attacker? Yes, you would, if you practiced that way. Have you ever performed your kata, kumite or bunkai when deprived of sleep for 24 hours, while under the influence of alcohol (I know, this is not allowed in a dojo), on a full stomach, after running for 10 minutes? You may very well be in one of these states when attacked someday.
In the dojo, you must practice for anything that may come your way. While doing so, try the different breathing methods while performing yakosoku kumite, bunkai, and jiyu kumite. What works for you, keep. What does not, discard. Do not just "go through the motions" practicing kata, kumite and bunkai. This training is much deeper than just movements. Transition from movement to movement, tai sabaki principles, distancing, energy control, damage control and recovery control are the benefits gained by kata, kumite and bunkai repetition.
You may never use or see 80% of the techniques that you practice when forced to defend yourself. You will however, use the transitional aspect, the breathing method you have developed, tai sabaki principles, distancing, energy conservation, and recovery control that this practice helps us develop.
To be real, practice for real.
Just remember to stay focused all the time. Injuries WILL OCCUR if you “let your guard down” for even one second. Please keep your fingers together no matter how you practice. Damage to the fingers is the most common dojo injury.
------------------
Len Testa
Heck, in a real confrontation, it doesn't look like the stuff you've practiced in the dojo anyway, so I might as well be practicing the body mechanics of the style that I will feel naturally comfortable with if the need arises!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If we practice anything in the dojo that will not work in a real situation then we are just "going through the motions" for exercise only.
Why practice kata, kumite, and bunkai if it does not teach you how to defend an attack?
If your breathing is different in a confrontation, than it is when practicing in the dojo, then why do we practice it that way? If I believed that it was different, I would have to assume that kickboxing, wrestling, and sparring should be the only curriculum. You certainly will learn how to breathe, after going a few rounds while being hit numerous times to the body, trying to attack and retreat. You will learn what technique works and what doesn't work.
In the dojo, we train with knowledgeable martial artists who know how to properly punch, kick and block. The technique is performed the same each time with no variation and the difference between a black belt and a brown belt is the speed of the technique. When a “thug” confronts you, the attacks will not be as precise as you are accustomed to seeing in the dojo. Let us face it folks, you will see haymakers and improperly executed techniques thrown your way when you are in the "real world”ä. Biting, spitting and clawing are not to be used in the dojo? We cannot use those improper ways of attack! Come on!
Do you think for one second that your adversary will not make these techniques part of his arsenal?
How many times have you seen a tori stop his execution of a technique because the uke did not make the correct attack???
Would you freeze when confronted by a less knowledgeable attacker? Yes, you would, if you practiced that way. Have you ever performed your kata, kumite or bunkai when deprived of sleep for 24 hours, while under the influence of alcohol (I know, this is not allowed in a dojo), on a full stomach, after running for 10 minutes? You may very well be in one of these states when attacked someday.In the dojo, you must practice for anything that may come your way. While doing so, try the different breathing methods while performing yakosoku kumite, bunkai, and jiyu kumite. What works for you, keep. What does not, discard. Do not just "go through the motions" practicing kata, kumite and bunkai. This training is much deeper than just movements. Transition from movement to movement, tai sabaki principles, distancing, energy control, damage control and recovery control are the benefits gained by kata, kumite and bunkai repetition.
You may never use or see 80% of the techniques that you practice when forced to defend yourself. You will however, use the transitional aspect, the breathing method you have developed, tai sabaki principles, distancing, energy conservation, and recovery control that this practice helps us develop.
To be real, practice for real.
Just remember to stay focused all the time. Injuries WILL OCCUR if you “let your guard down” for even one second. Please keep your fingers together no matter how you practice. Damage to the fingers is the most common dojo injury.
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Len Testa
Who owns The Holy Grail?
Testa-sempai,
Excellent synopsis... I can always count on the seniors here to help make sense out of my mental mish-mash and ramblings. Fundamentally, it's all about body mechanics (as you've written) and finding what/how something "works for you". No matter how much I feel like I used X, Y, or Z technique in a confrontation, what actually happens is that from continuous practice, your body remembers what mechanics work for a given situation. That, by default, becomes the "technique" that you fall back on.
Since returning to the dojo, some things just "don't feel right" no matter what I do. I know that this is because of the changes that my body has gone through... (knees don't work and hurt, hips/muscles are tight, back hurts, hey, where'd this spare tire come from?!?! ) I was fortunate that Chojin-sensei took the extra time after class to help me understand some things. Sometimes, no matter what you think you see in the mirror and what you think you feel, it takes a trained, competent sensei to make a few adjustments, offer some encouragement and help out. I didn't realize I was "shrinking in" until she made some adjustments and then said, "You're big, you have to allow yourself to be large." When I looked in the mirror, I looked, well... huge! I felt much better and went home and worked on it... I was trying to make myself look & be like everyone else in the dojo and there isn't anyone there as "large" as I am...
Excellent synopsis... I can always count on the seniors here to help make sense out of my mental mish-mash and ramblings.
Fundamentally, it's all about body mechanics (as you've written) and finding what/how something "works for you". No matter how much I feel like I used X, Y, or Z technique in a confrontation, what actually happens is that from continuous practice, your body remembers what mechanics work for a given situation. That, by default, becomes the "technique" that you fall back on.Since returning to the dojo, some things just "don't feel right" no matter what I do. I know that this is because of the changes that my body has gone through... (knees don't work and hurt, hips/muscles are tight, back hurts, hey, where'd this spare tire come from?!?!
) I was fortunate that Chojin-sensei took the extra time after class to help me understand some things. Sometimes, no matter what you think you see in the mirror and what you think you feel, it takes a trained, competent sensei to make a few adjustments, offer some encouragement and help out. I didn't realize I was "shrinking in" until she made some adjustments and then said, "You're big, you have to allow yourself to be large." When I looked in the mirror, I looked, well... huge! I felt much better and went home and worked on it... I was trying to make myself look & be like everyone else in the dojo and there isn't anyone there as "large" as I am... Who owns The Holy Grail?
I agree with Len Testa that everything we do needs to be scrutinized and fixed if its not doing its job.
Then on the other hand, I do think its important for everyone to realize that most of us do uechi for the karate-do, not the karate-jutsu. What is the "job?"
We like having something ancient and traditional and serious and self-challenging to do, for its own sake. We'd keep doing it even if we were certain we'd never be attacked, I'd wager.
And if we really were training for a fight, I think we'd do it differently.
Anyone who says they're doing their uechi solely because it can be used in self defense, then walks down the street without a knife or gun, stops into a bar, travels alone, goes somewhere else less than perfectly safe... doesn't take other arts like jujitsu or judo... well I don't think they're fully aware of what all their motivations for learning are.
Because they're faster and easier ways to learn to fight than doing sanchin. So the other reasons we do it--they must be important to us too. Maybe even more important.
So can we do unrealistic things in the dojo if the make us happy? Sure. We just need to know why we're doing them.
Oh, and Rich--can you TELL me what they did? Anything I missed on my bunkai list project? If so, please help me add it and credit the originator.
[This message has been edited by Ian (edited January 10, 2001).]
Then on the other hand, I do think its important for everyone to realize that most of us do uechi for the karate-do, not the karate-jutsu. What is the "job?"
We like having something ancient and traditional and serious and self-challenging to do, for its own sake. We'd keep doing it even if we were certain we'd never be attacked, I'd wager.
And if we really were training for a fight, I think we'd do it differently.
Anyone who says they're doing their uechi solely because it can be used in self defense, then walks down the street without a knife or gun, stops into a bar, travels alone, goes somewhere else less than perfectly safe... doesn't take other arts like jujitsu or judo... well I don't think they're fully aware of what all their motivations for learning are.
Because they're faster and easier ways to learn to fight than doing sanchin. So the other reasons we do it--they must be important to us too. Maybe even more important.
So can we do unrealistic things in the dojo if the make us happy? Sure. We just need to know why we're doing them.
Oh, and Rich--can you TELL me what they did? Anything I missed on my bunkai list project? If so, please help me add it and credit the originator.
[This message has been edited by Ian (edited January 10, 2001).]
