Chi is what modern science (Americans) call Bio-electrical energy.
The human body consists of many different electrical conduits. The body is an electromagnetic field. Electrical energy is constantly generated in the human body because of the bio-chemical reactions of substances we take within it. Examples being food and oxygen. The energy is circulated by electromagnetic forces, that occur within the body such as thought or motion.
We are affected by external forces/dynamics everyday. The earth, other people etc.
It is "vital" to be aware of these things. By being aware of them gives you advantages in which to initiate movement, engage select muscle groups, settle/sink, root, switch, disrupt etc.
Gravity by itself should be our best friend.
Back to the body
Take our skeletal system for example, when pressure or stress is placed on one or more bones, mechanical energy is transformed in to an electrical current.
A primary source that keeps our body and cells alive is the electrical energy that is converted from food and air.
Just about everything can affect our electrical circulation. If you are sick, injured, tired, depressed, angry, etc....all will affect in some way. If your electrical circulation stops....well....you will die. It is also responsible for healing and repairing external/internal damage. Hence acupuncture, shiatsu etc.
Ok lets look at Chi/Electrical energy as it relates to Martial Arts.
With an understanding of "energies" it will increase effectiveness and power, speed and all the attributes that we seek. While decreasing effort.......
Simply put....the mind leads the chi to the muscles so that they function and perform a desired task more efficiently. Typically the average person uses his muscles, tendons and other conductive properties less than 35% of maximum capacity.
It is best to think in terms of leading the energy "THROUGH" the muscles rather than to them. They are just a conductor by which the energy is transported from different points of reference. After all it is our objective to penetrate/shock our opponent as much as possible by transferring our energy into them without receiving shock/re-bound.
Which brings us to Jin/Jing.
Jin or Jing can be defined as the physical manifestation of chi or as using the mind to lead the chi through the muscles which can manifest power at its maximum level.
Just as there are many different types and degrees of chi/energies there are just as many different types of Jin....hard, hard/soft, soft, external, internal, defensive, listening, attacking, expanding, contracting, penetrating, re-bound, dissolving, shaking, final, springing and more.
The common thread with all of these things is that they all have to do with the "flow" of chi.
Although Jin is power, it is much, much, more than muscular strength. When muscular strength is used primarily then this is referred to as Hard Jin. This is easily felt and seen. This creates handles in the body in which the opponent can use against you, not to mention that shock and re-bound will result because of tenseness of the body.
If muscle usage, involvement, contraction is brought to a minimum and the chi/energy is allowed to flow naturally from point to point smoothly then this is called Soft Jin. This is also referred to as short power. Best example would be a whip, which creates a great deal of force in a concentrated area with in a very short amount of time.
When soft jin is used the body stays relatively relaxed as you send a pulse or burst of energy through your body. This is accomplished with the tendons, and the very end of the muscles, oh...and of course the chi/energy.
Every time you move or do anything muscles are used. The key is only use what is necessary.....hence the phrase "Reject what is useless"
The chi/energy uses the muscles, not the muscles use the chi/energy.
These pulses, bursts, waves or what have you can be long or short. It can be the expansion or contraction of the body as when you use physical or vital structure. Or when your opponent crashes into you.
A perfect example of soft jin within martial arts is a good straight punch or any technique for that matter. What makes a straiguht punch different than any other punch is the structure, energies, principles, theories it employs. Same way with blocks, kicks, parries, etc.
If hard jin has or creates "handles" in the body. Then it can be said that soft jin has and creates no "handles" rather it eliminates them in you while creating "handles" in your opponent. Soft jin cannot be seen...IT MUST BE FELT like structure.
Also Soft jin comes from structure, where as hard jin comes from the muscles.
Shadowhands
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My world.....the Life of Peace....the Art of War....the Way of the Warrior.
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Moderator: Available
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Shadowhands
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Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Shadowhands,
A nice summation. As most on this forum will support - I am open to the idea of chi and many of its manifestations (my best friend is an acupuncturist and taught me a little about the concepts.)
There is one concept you left out of your summation that is often a stumbling block for conversations about chi and energy and force between chinese medicine/martial arts paradigms and Modern Western Medicine (MWM) paradigms. That concept is nerves and the role they play in the transmission of what you call chi. While most major acupuncture channels travel near through or around nerves, many of the points used in acupuncture don't line up precisely with nerves.
A gentleman named Bruce Miller who publishes on pressure points knows more than I can hope to about MWM atamonmy & functionality of nerves. And he uses pressure points. But he doesn't buy into meridian theory to explain what happens. He's searching for MWM reasons (while still using points)
The following examle is meant, allegorically, to illustrate this breakdown.
You hit a point, and a man coughs.
The nerve, under where you hit, is one the transmits information from the brain to the forearm. So in the MWM paradigm the man should have felt a bit of numbness or tingling in his arm. In life, he coughed.
This tends to be where the conversation breaks down. The point between this is what chinese medicine/martial arts says will happen when you hit this place on the body vs. MWM saying what is possible based on nerves & anatomny.
Do have an idea of how to breach this gap in conversation other than simple faith?
cheers,
Dana
[This message has been edited by dmsdc (edited January 13, 2002).]
A nice summation. As most on this forum will support - I am open to the idea of chi and many of its manifestations (my best friend is an acupuncturist and taught me a little about the concepts.)
There is one concept you left out of your summation that is often a stumbling block for conversations about chi and energy and force between chinese medicine/martial arts paradigms and Modern Western Medicine (MWM) paradigms. That concept is nerves and the role they play in the transmission of what you call chi. While most major acupuncture channels travel near through or around nerves, many of the points used in acupuncture don't line up precisely with nerves.
A gentleman named Bruce Miller who publishes on pressure points knows more than I can hope to about MWM atamonmy & functionality of nerves. And he uses pressure points. But he doesn't buy into meridian theory to explain what happens. He's searching for MWM reasons (while still using points)
The following examle is meant, allegorically, to illustrate this breakdown.
You hit a point, and a man coughs.
The nerve, under where you hit, is one the transmits information from the brain to the forearm. So in the MWM paradigm the man should have felt a bit of numbness or tingling in his arm. In life, he coughed.
This tends to be where the conversation breaks down. The point between this is what chinese medicine/martial arts says will happen when you hit this place on the body vs. MWM saying what is possible based on nerves & anatomny.
Do have an idea of how to breach this gap in conversation other than simple faith?
cheers,
Dana
[This message has been edited by dmsdc (edited January 13, 2002).]
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Ah, Shadowhands, you are new to these Forums!
Chi is an oft discussed concept, almost inevitably leading to hard held and emotional opinions.
Be prepared for the salvos from Dr. Ian, Dr. Glasheen, and possibly the return of Dr. X, who as a group can be called the "Not Proven!" school of thought.
Incoming....
student
Chi is an oft discussed concept, almost inevitably leading to hard held and emotional opinions.
Be prepared for the salvos from Dr. Ian, Dr. Glasheen, and possibly the return of Dr. X, who as a group can be called the "Not Proven!" school of thought.
Incoming....
student
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Student, you forget the middle school of: "I don't care about the underlying theory, if the practice works." 
david
david
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Shadowhands
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Nevada
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Dmsdc,
Thankyou for your comments. I completely agree what you have said about the nerves and such.
What I wrote is by no means the summation of the topic of chi. The reason I wrote it is to give a very brief beginning to chi and the use of energies as far as Martial Arts is cocerned. More importantly the physical manifestation through the relaxation of the body.
Good Training
Shadohands
------------------
My world.....the Life of Peace....the Art of War....the Way of the Warrior.
Thankyou for your comments. I completely agree what you have said about the nerves and such.
What I wrote is by no means the summation of the topic of chi. The reason I wrote it is to give a very brief beginning to chi and the use of energies as far as Martial Arts is cocerned. More importantly the physical manifestation through the relaxation of the body.
Good Training
Shadohands
------------------
My world.....the Life of Peace....the Art of War....the Way of the Warrior.
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
As predicted: A "salvo" from Dr. Ian. I don't mean to discount the utility of chi in describing martial arts actions, but there isn't any relationship to science. The language is basically *metaphor.* Instead of saying, "chi is the transfer of electrical energy" (or some variant) one ought to say, "having "chi" is *like* feeling electricity running through you."
"Chi is what modern science (Americans) call Bio-electrical energy."
Maybe. If people are speaking loosely. The scientists among us have very specific definitions of this electricity, and it has nothing to do with chi.
"The human body consists of many different electrical conduits."
Not really; the closest things are nerves but they convey information using electricity; they're not electrical conduits. The electricity moves across the wire perpendicular to the information, whereas in wires the electricity moves down the length.
"The body is an electromagnetic field. Electrical energy is constantly generated in the human body because of the bio-chemical reactions of substances we take within it. Examples being food and oxygen."
The body *generates* such forces but that's different from being one. When food is "burnt" by our enzymes to create fuel, there are "redox" reactions; the food is oxidized, the oxygen is reduced. However, this occurs on an indescribably tiny level and is completely different from large currents of free electrons we use in appliances.
"The energy is circulated by electromagnetic forces, that occur within the body such as thought or motion."
This is only true metaphorically. Beyond that, it doesn't mean much. Thought does not circulate energy, or even move it one way.
"We are affected by external forces/dynamics everyday. The earth, other people etc."
Yes but how? Gravitationally and emotionally? What does this mean to chi?
"Gravity by itself should be our best friend."
True enough, otherwise we'd have no stars, planets or atmospheres.
"Take our skeletal system for example, when pressure or stress is placed on one or more bones, mechanical energy is transformed in to an electrical current."
Not true. A summation of energy transfers in life: Fusion in the sun--> light radiation --> captured in molecules by plants --> consumed and then metabolized by people; food is "burnt" and some of the resulting energy is captured in other hi energy molecules, primarily ATP --> ATP is used to move proteins and accomplish enzymatic reactions, and the difference between the chemical energy of the reactants and products is released as heat; when they are moving proteins, some of the ATP energy is converted to kinetic energy, and eventually ends up as heat too. Each step releases a lot of "wasted" energy as heat.
"A primary source that keeps our... cells alive is the electrical energy..."
Chemical energy.
"Just about everything can affect our electrical circulation."
We don't have one. Electrons do not circulate in us. What followed this comment in the original therefore doesn't pertain.
"If you are sick, injured, tired, depressed, angry, etc....all will affect in some way."
A demonstration of how this electricity theory is actually a metaphor for the "feel" of life. Anger doesn't impair chemical reactions; emotions aren't reflections of cellular energetics.
"mind leads the chi to the muscles so that they function and perform a desired task more efficiently. Typically the average person uses his muscles, tendons and other conductive properties less than 35% of maximum capacity."
What does that mean? When we are asleep, we are using a tiny fraction of our capacity, but chi isn't off. How is this number derived? Chi is not a physical entity the brain can direct places. It's a sometimes useful metaphor.
"After all it is our objective to penetrate/shock our opponent as much as possible by transferring our energy into them without receiving shock/re-bound."
(For every reaction, there is an equal an opposite reaction.) More precisely, our objective is to convert chemical into mechanical energy and transfer it to the BG by striking to cause damage and dysfunction. Rebound is universal; there are no guns without kickback. The key is targeting and timing to maximize the damage to them and minimize it to us.
"When muscular strength is used primarily then ... this creates handles in the body in which the opponent can use against you."
What do you mean by handles?
"Best example would be a whip, which creates a great deal of force in a concentrated area with in a very short amount of time."
The problem is the whip saves the striker by gaining energy / kicking back over a long distance (safe to us) then releasing it over a short one (bad for him and end of whip), but the body (fist, etc) has to be that punished whip.
"This is accomplished with the tendons, and the very end of the muscles,"
The muscles contract throughout their length. They are attached to bone by relatively non-stretchy tendons, working as levers.
"It can be the expansion or contraction of the body"
In a large sense; looking more closely, all muscular actions are driven by contractions. Muscles cannot lengthen on their own.
"Also Soft jin comes from structure, where as hard jin comes from the muscles."
Please elaborate.
Addendum: What Nerves Do:
A generic nerve has receivers on one end that detect signals, a cell body, and a long cylinder or axon for sending messages. At the end they release chemicals that the receivers of OTHER nerves detect and interpret. I will focus on the long axons (sometimes feet in length) which are the closest thing to an electrical wire.
They spend most of their time moving electrically charged atoms across their membrane, keeping sodium out and potassium in. They move perpendicular to the axon. It's kept slightly (-) inside, (+) outside but no net electricity or ions move.
During an impulse (a "bit" of energy carried down the length), small sections of axon depolarize then repolarize down the length. Ion channels open and sodium rushes in, then they close and others allow potassium to rush out, resotring the polarized state, and the busy ion pumps keep the sodium mostly out and the potassium net in. The fraction of Na and K that actually moves is miniscule. No ions move down the axon, just across the membrane locally. No electrons travel down the axon, just the signal. Information moves, not electricity. While there are electrical potentials, they're TINY and do not have anything to do with the sensations and motions of chi. When muscles move, they do so when nerves tell them to, but they use energy stored inside, not carried by the nerves.
"Chi is what modern science (Americans) call Bio-electrical energy."
Maybe. If people are speaking loosely. The scientists among us have very specific definitions of this electricity, and it has nothing to do with chi.
"The human body consists of many different electrical conduits."
Not really; the closest things are nerves but they convey information using electricity; they're not electrical conduits. The electricity moves across the wire perpendicular to the information, whereas in wires the electricity moves down the length.
"The body is an electromagnetic field. Electrical energy is constantly generated in the human body because of the bio-chemical reactions of substances we take within it. Examples being food and oxygen."
The body *generates* such forces but that's different from being one. When food is "burnt" by our enzymes to create fuel, there are "redox" reactions; the food is oxidized, the oxygen is reduced. However, this occurs on an indescribably tiny level and is completely different from large currents of free electrons we use in appliances.
"The energy is circulated by electromagnetic forces, that occur within the body such as thought or motion."
This is only true metaphorically. Beyond that, it doesn't mean much. Thought does not circulate energy, or even move it one way.
"We are affected by external forces/dynamics everyday. The earth, other people etc."
Yes but how? Gravitationally and emotionally? What does this mean to chi?
"Gravity by itself should be our best friend."
True enough, otherwise we'd have no stars, planets or atmospheres.
"Take our skeletal system for example, when pressure or stress is placed on one or more bones, mechanical energy is transformed in to an electrical current."
Not true. A summation of energy transfers in life: Fusion in the sun--> light radiation --> captured in molecules by plants --> consumed and then metabolized by people; food is "burnt" and some of the resulting energy is captured in other hi energy molecules, primarily ATP --> ATP is used to move proteins and accomplish enzymatic reactions, and the difference between the chemical energy of the reactants and products is released as heat; when they are moving proteins, some of the ATP energy is converted to kinetic energy, and eventually ends up as heat too. Each step releases a lot of "wasted" energy as heat.
"A primary source that keeps our... cells alive is the electrical energy..."
Chemical energy.
"Just about everything can affect our electrical circulation."
We don't have one. Electrons do not circulate in us. What followed this comment in the original therefore doesn't pertain.
"If you are sick, injured, tired, depressed, angry, etc....all will affect in some way."
A demonstration of how this electricity theory is actually a metaphor for the "feel" of life. Anger doesn't impair chemical reactions; emotions aren't reflections of cellular energetics.
"mind leads the chi to the muscles so that they function and perform a desired task more efficiently. Typically the average person uses his muscles, tendons and other conductive properties less than 35% of maximum capacity."
What does that mean? When we are asleep, we are using a tiny fraction of our capacity, but chi isn't off. How is this number derived? Chi is not a physical entity the brain can direct places. It's a sometimes useful metaphor.
"After all it is our objective to penetrate/shock our opponent as much as possible by transferring our energy into them without receiving shock/re-bound."
(For every reaction, there is an equal an opposite reaction.) More precisely, our objective is to convert chemical into mechanical energy and transfer it to the BG by striking to cause damage and dysfunction. Rebound is universal; there are no guns without kickback. The key is targeting and timing to maximize the damage to them and minimize it to us.
"When muscular strength is used primarily then ... this creates handles in the body in which the opponent can use against you."
What do you mean by handles?
"Best example would be a whip, which creates a great deal of force in a concentrated area with in a very short amount of time."
The problem is the whip saves the striker by gaining energy / kicking back over a long distance (safe to us) then releasing it over a short one (bad for him and end of whip), but the body (fist, etc) has to be that punished whip.
"This is accomplished with the tendons, and the very end of the muscles,"
The muscles contract throughout their length. They are attached to bone by relatively non-stretchy tendons, working as levers.
"It can be the expansion or contraction of the body"
In a large sense; looking more closely, all muscular actions are driven by contractions. Muscles cannot lengthen on their own.
"Also Soft jin comes from structure, where as hard jin comes from the muscles."
Please elaborate.
Addendum: What Nerves Do:
A generic nerve has receivers on one end that detect signals, a cell body, and a long cylinder or axon for sending messages. At the end they release chemicals that the receivers of OTHER nerves detect and interpret. I will focus on the long axons (sometimes feet in length) which are the closest thing to an electrical wire.
They spend most of their time moving electrically charged atoms across their membrane, keeping sodium out and potassium in. They move perpendicular to the axon. It's kept slightly (-) inside, (+) outside but no net electricity or ions move.
During an impulse (a "bit" of energy carried down the length), small sections of axon depolarize then repolarize down the length. Ion channels open and sodium rushes in, then they close and others allow potassium to rush out, resotring the polarized state, and the busy ion pumps keep the sodium mostly out and the potassium net in. The fraction of Na and K that actually moves is miniscule. No ions move down the axon, just across the membrane locally. No electrons travel down the axon, just the signal. Information moves, not electricity. While there are electrical potentials, they're TINY and do not have anything to do with the sensations and motions of chi. When muscles move, they do so when nerves tell them to, but they use energy stored inside, not carried by the nerves.
-
Rick Wilson
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Shadowhands:
Thank you for your post.
I am someone who simple accepts Qi as fact because it simply is. This comes from my personal experiences. It is one of the reasons I am a student of David Mott Sensei. I also believe it is vital to my martial arts training. I state this for those who were not around in the early days of this forum throughout many discussions. (A thank you to Bill for the opportunity to have such discussions.) I say this just so everyone knows where I stand.
I tell my students that what they believe is up to them, but I advise them to, at minimum, think as David does: "I don't care about the underlying theory, if the practice works."
Ian stated "I don't mean to discount the utility of chi in describing martial arts actions, but there isn't any relationship to science." I think this is a great statement because the moment you try to define Qi by current science you will get into trouble. The reason is that science can measure what it has currently discovered. So when it is said Qi is bio-electrical energy, well, science can measure electrical energy and it understands how it works. As Ian demonstrated very clearly. Also as Ian says, you can describe Qi as being like a bio-electrical energy, but if you say it is electricity, well, then the description is not correct and provably so.
I do not think Qi is electricity or anything else our science has currently identified. I am certainly do not have the scientific knowledge to tell anyone that it is something currently measured. If you go that route then the posters on this forum will certainly engage you in dialogue over it, and appropriately so. For myself, I just know it is an energy that I train with.
For those who do not believe in Qi, as well more power to you. Not my issue and no disrespect intended. I have taken part in many discussions. To me Qi is experiential so there is nothing to talk about except how to better my martial arts.
And I am very interested in hearing more of the martial use, please continue.
Rick
[This message has been edited by Rick Wilson (edited January 14, 2002).]
Thank you for your post.
I am someone who simple accepts Qi as fact because it simply is. This comes from my personal experiences. It is one of the reasons I am a student of David Mott Sensei. I also believe it is vital to my martial arts training. I state this for those who were not around in the early days of this forum throughout many discussions. (A thank you to Bill for the opportunity to have such discussions.) I say this just so everyone knows where I stand.
I tell my students that what they believe is up to them, but I advise them to, at minimum, think as David does: "I don't care about the underlying theory, if the practice works."
Ian stated "I don't mean to discount the utility of chi in describing martial arts actions, but there isn't any relationship to science." I think this is a great statement because the moment you try to define Qi by current science you will get into trouble. The reason is that science can measure what it has currently discovered. So when it is said Qi is bio-electrical energy, well, science can measure electrical energy and it understands how it works. As Ian demonstrated very clearly. Also as Ian says, you can describe Qi as being like a bio-electrical energy, but if you say it is electricity, well, then the description is not correct and provably so.
I do not think Qi is electricity or anything else our science has currently identified. I am certainly do not have the scientific knowledge to tell anyone that it is something currently measured. If you go that route then the posters on this forum will certainly engage you in dialogue over it, and appropriately so. For myself, I just know it is an energy that I train with.
For those who do not believe in Qi, as well more power to you
. Not my issue and no disrespect intended. I have taken part in many discussions. To me Qi is experiential so there is nothing to talk about except how to better my martial arts.And I am very interested in hearing more of the martial use, please continue.
Rick
[This message has been edited by Rick Wilson (edited January 14, 2002).]
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Okay, time for me to take a stand.
I have had experiences that lead me to believe there is something there in chi/ki/prana/ruakh/orgone energy/etc. - but I also accept that my beliefs are anecdotal, and need not persuade another.
At the very least, as Ian has stipulated, it is a useful metaphor. (And BTW, I am sincerely pleased and grateful for the high tone in the critical review.) Is it more than that? I think so - but I admit there
is little repeatable proof.
I would like to see proof - not mere sweeping statements. Proof.
Let the discussions and critiques resume. Let the ad hominem arguments stay home.
Proceed....
student
I have had experiences that lead me to believe there is something there in chi/ki/prana/ruakh/orgone energy/etc. - but I also accept that my beliefs are anecdotal, and need not persuade another.
At the very least, as Ian has stipulated, it is a useful metaphor. (And BTW, I am sincerely pleased and grateful for the high tone in the critical review.) Is it more than that? I think so - but I admit there
is little repeatable proof.
I would like to see proof - not mere sweeping statements. Proof.
Let the discussions and critiques resume. Let the ad hominem arguments stay home.
Proceed....
student
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Dr. Ian wrote a rather comprehensive assessment and rebuttal to Shadowhand's post. Since his assessment is so thorough, I thought I'd pick on my buddy Ian here for missing something. I note the following. Shadowhands wrote <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
There's more I could write, but I'll hold back a bit for now.
- Bill
and Ian wrote <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quoteTake our skeletal system for example, when pressure or stress is placed on one or more bones, mechanical energy is transformed in to an electrical current.
Actually I'm going to side with Shadowhands here. It's well known that bone is a piezoelectric substance. Webster writes <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quoteNot true. A summation of energy transfers in life: Fusion in the sun--> light radiation --> captured in molecules by plants --> consumed and then metabolized by people; food is "burnt" and some of the resulting energy is captured in other hi energy molecules, primarily ATP --> ATP is used to move proteins and accomplish enzymatic reactions, and the difference between the chemical energy of the reactants and products is released as heat; when they are moving proteins, some of the ATP energy is converted to kinetic energy, and eventually ends up as heat too. Each step releases a lot of "wasted" energy as heat.
Basically the piezoelectric properties of bone allow it to regulate the osteoclasts and osteoblasts so that minerals can properly be deposited along the lines of stress in the bone. By the way, this is a long way of saying that weight-bearing exercises are good for your bones.The principle of operation is that, when an asymmetrical crystal lattice is distorted, a charge reorientation takes place, causing a relative displacement of negative and positive charges. The displaced internal charges induce surface charges of opposite polarity on opposite sides of the crystal.
There's more I could write, but I'll hold back a bit for now.
- Bill
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Shadowhands
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Nevada
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
"(For every reaction, there is an equal an opposite reaction.) More precisely, our objective is to convert chemical into mechanical energy and transfer it to the BG by striking to cause damage and dysfunction. Rebound is universal; there are no guns without kickback. The key is targeting and timing to maximize the damage to them and minimize it to us."
I agree that re-bound is universal.....however the amount is not....for example when I strike someone with a "soft" structural punch the only re-bound I feel is the impact on the surface of my knuckles. This "soft" punch as I call easily sends anyone regardless of weight, size, stance or what ever back with tremendous force, shocking their entire body.
Now...if one hits with a tensed arm....the energy that is imparted will rebound back to that tense muscle..not all but as much as half. This causes shock in your body and the resonance can break the hand/arm.
"What do I mean by Handles"
It is easier to move something with handles....correct?....
Stand infront of someone and tense your arm, have them push or pull on it, it moves your entire body...maybe not allot but enough. Any handle in the body makes it easier for the opponent to send shock into you, as well as disrupt your balance.
"It can be the expansion or contraction of the body"
I thought this would be misunderstood....however it is my fault for not explaining it. I am not talking in the muscular sense here. Lets say that you come flying at me at great speed and we crash into one another, if I allow my body to expand by sinking the ches, rounding the back while staying interconnected with the entirety of my body and ground you will re-bound off of me because of the alignment of the body. I teach this to my students...it applies to everything and is quite simple to do. Contraction....if the opponent reaches, strikes, or kicks etc, and extends himself at all I contine his energy in that direction, or I attack with proper alignment into his attack ...both are examples of contraction as I use the term.
"Also Soft jin comes from structure, where as hard jin comes from the muscles."
Soft Jin/Power comes from interconnectedness of the body, ground. Because of this alignment which is internal and external...muscular effort is minimized therefore dicreasing re-bound, handles and maximizing penetration/shock. Hard jin/power comes from using hard punches, throws kicks ect to accomplish a desired task. Hard has it's place and time, be soft when you can hard when you have to.
As far as me explaining chi in bio-electrical terms...this is my expression of it at this point in time.
A good demonstration of interconnectedness is to stand on one foot while someone is attempting to push you over they will be unable to do so...and at any instance you can push them back. Notice the word demonstation...it is a demonstration of internal alignment and structure.
Is it a trick..yes. It just demonstrates principles that can apply to combat as well as any martial art.
I like your questions,
Good post..
Shadowhands
------------------
My world.....the Life of Peace....the Art of War....the Way of the Warrior.
[This message has been edited by Shadowhands (edited January 14, 2002).]
I agree that re-bound is universal.....however the amount is not....for example when I strike someone with a "soft" structural punch the only re-bound I feel is the impact on the surface of my knuckles. This "soft" punch as I call easily sends anyone regardless of weight, size, stance or what ever back with tremendous force, shocking their entire body.
Now...if one hits with a tensed arm....the energy that is imparted will rebound back to that tense muscle..not all but as much as half. This causes shock in your body and the resonance can break the hand/arm.
"What do I mean by Handles"
It is easier to move something with handles....correct?....
Stand infront of someone and tense your arm, have them push or pull on it, it moves your entire body...maybe not allot but enough. Any handle in the body makes it easier for the opponent to send shock into you, as well as disrupt your balance.
"It can be the expansion or contraction of the body"
I thought this would be misunderstood....however it is my fault for not explaining it. I am not talking in the muscular sense here. Lets say that you come flying at me at great speed and we crash into one another, if I allow my body to expand by sinking the ches, rounding the back while staying interconnected with the entirety of my body and ground you will re-bound off of me because of the alignment of the body. I teach this to my students...it applies to everything and is quite simple to do. Contraction....if the opponent reaches, strikes, or kicks etc, and extends himself at all I contine his energy in that direction, or I attack with proper alignment into his attack ...both are examples of contraction as I use the term.
"Also Soft jin comes from structure, where as hard jin comes from the muscles."
Soft Jin/Power comes from interconnectedness of the body, ground. Because of this alignment which is internal and external...muscular effort is minimized therefore dicreasing re-bound, handles and maximizing penetration/shock. Hard jin/power comes from using hard punches, throws kicks ect to accomplish a desired task. Hard has it's place and time, be soft when you can hard when you have to.
As far as me explaining chi in bio-electrical terms...this is my expression of it at this point in time.
A good demonstration of interconnectedness is to stand on one foot while someone is attempting to push you over they will be unable to do so...and at any instance you can push them back. Notice the word demonstation...it is a demonstration of internal alignment and structure.
Is it a trick..yes. It just demonstrates principles that can apply to combat as well as any martial art.
I like your questions,
Good post..
Shadowhands
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My world.....the Life of Peace....the Art of War....the Way of the Warrior.
[This message has been edited by Shadowhands (edited January 14, 2002).]
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Shadowhands
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Nevada
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Any time within the post that I say electrical energy I am meaning Chi...that is my expression.
Shadowhands
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My world.....the Life of Peace....the Art of War....the Way of the Warrior.
Shadowhands
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My world.....the Life of Peace....the Art of War....the Way of the Warrior.
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Verrrrrry fascinating, Sensei Bill, but my question is, does that represent a "current" in the manner of the word used by some (not nesc shadowhands) chi proponents, wherein they attribute macroscopic power (knocking a foe about, etc) to fields generated by moving charges within the body?
Wondrous cells, those osteoclasts/blasts.
As mechnical stress strengthens the bone, so does a fiesty discussion strengthen the noggin.
Worth adding: Shadowhands and I don't really seem to disagree. In large part, it looks like Shadowhands wrote a summary of what chi is about but instead of using chi terminology threw in some western metaphors, and knows they aren't more than metaphors. So then, why not just use chi language, keeping to the original metaphors? Then, no one gets confused about what electricity stuff really is going on. Does painting a shaolin temple with western paint really improve it?
[This message has been edited by Ian (edited January 14, 2002).]
Wondrous cells, those osteoclasts/blasts.
As mechnical stress strengthens the bone, so does a fiesty discussion strengthen the noggin.
Worth adding: Shadowhands and I don't really seem to disagree. In large part, it looks like Shadowhands wrote a summary of what chi is about but instead of using chi terminology threw in some western metaphors, and knows they aren't more than metaphors. So then, why not just use chi language, keeping to the original metaphors? Then, no one gets confused about what electricity stuff really is going on. Does painting a shaolin temple with western paint really improve it?
[This message has been edited by Ian (edited January 14, 2002).]
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Hmmm... You are asking me to show my hand so early?? 
I am lurking here a bit. Actually I could be really coy and say "maybe" to your question. Consider for instance the whole topic of strength vs. power (which Shadowhands touched on). Might not we consider the whole concept of neuromuscular reflexes (i.e. plyometric motions), which do indeed involve electrical activity between muscle and spine (the stretch reflex)?
- Bill
I am lurking here a bit. Actually I could be really coy and say "maybe" to your question. Consider for instance the whole topic of strength vs. power (which Shadowhands touched on). Might not we consider the whole concept of neuromuscular reflexes (i.e. plyometric motions), which do indeed involve electrical activity between muscle and spine (the stretch reflex)?
- Bill
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
Again, the problem with the current idea is that information may travel from stretch receptor to spine back to muscle, there is still no current of electricity.
Chi and Bio-Electrical Energies
OK.....INHALE!!!! geezz,I was just lookin' for some Uechi punchy-kicky stuff and I get neuron receptor feedback impact forces synaptic overload stress accountability power vector plate tectonic red shift halflife covalent chi bonds with....................
