Spirituality vs Religion
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Le Haggard
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 3:38 am
- Location: Ballard area of Seattle, Washington State
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Stryke
ahh philosophy 
now i can talk about spirituality , to me philosophy is much more spiritually moving than religion ever was.
the mind, spirit , body connection of the martial arts ... kind of the anti cartesian dulaisim to me , these things dont exist seperately in me as a being the neccesity is all three to be a whole person , any focus on two of the elements can enhance the third in my opinion
martial arts is challenging the mind and body to ehance the spirit
where attempts to understand the spirit and body work the mind
and at the gyn i use my mind and spirit to improve my body ......
they are all aspects of the same , all different parts of the same whole
now i can talk about spirituality , to me philosophy is much more spiritually moving than religion ever was.
the mind, spirit , body connection of the martial arts ... kind of the anti cartesian dulaisim to me , these things dont exist seperately in me as a being the neccesity is all three to be a whole person , any focus on two of the elements can enhance the third in my opinion
martial arts is challenging the mind and body to ehance the spirit
where attempts to understand the spirit and body work the mind
and at the gyn i use my mind and spirit to improve my body ......
they are all aspects of the same , all different parts of the same whole
LOL
**and at the gyn i use** there something you aren't telling us strike?
LOL sorry HAD to tease ya on that typo- I take it you meant Gym- I can see your views Strike- similiar to my own-
YES Le' you gave me a headake! LOL- But WOW- I'll have to go over and see the discussion. I do so love those questions and thought process'
The one thing I'll say about Being vs non-being- I certainly believe in a "balance"- to have one you must be able to have the other- it's like this riddle/question I love- "ok- we know what the speed of light is- so what's the speed of dark?" I'd say the same. My opinion If there is a Being- there is that place which "it" isn't- the time thing is a real doozy because I believe that here on earth- of coarse we have time- it is evident in the seasons etc. age etc. but go into space- time is different- so I believe also that there is a place where time is irrelevent or else at least different then here on earth.
Personally- from the way I see things- changing the past within the confines of any given particular "line of time" meaning the same one- not jumping from one to the other- so far- I don't see it being possible- maybe someday it will be- like in the fourth Star Trek movie- which of coarse would ultimately change the whole line of that time- so it wouldn't be that same time line. LOL Now I'm fggiving myself a headake LOL- But that's how my thought process would work on that "line" LOL (pun intended LOL)
Cool!!!!! this is fun!
K-
**and at the gyn i use** there something you aren't telling us strike?
LOL sorry HAD to tease ya on that typo- I take it you meant Gym- I can see your views Strike- similiar to my own-
YES Le' you gave me a headake! LOL- But WOW- I'll have to go over and see the discussion. I do so love those questions and thought process'
The one thing I'll say about Being vs non-being- I certainly believe in a "balance"- to have one you must be able to have the other- it's like this riddle/question I love- "ok- we know what the speed of light is- so what's the speed of dark?" I'd say the same. My opinion
If there is a Being- there is that place which "it" isn't- the time thing is a real doozy because I believe that here on earth- of coarse we have time- it is evident in the seasons etc. age etc. but go into space- time is different- so I believe also that there is a place where time is irrelevent or else at least different then here on earth. Personally- from the way I see things- changing the past within the confines of any given particular "line of time" meaning the same one- not jumping from one to the other- so far- I don't see it being possible- maybe someday it will be- like in the fourth Star Trek movie- which of coarse would ultimately change the whole line of that time- so it wouldn't be that same time line. LOL Now I'm fggiving myself a headake LOL- But that's how my thought process would work on that "line" LOL (pun intended LOL)
Cool!!!!! this is fun!
K-
yeah gym , i got to learn to spell check -
jorvik
Hey Le.
the Philosophy stuff gave me a headache....but reminded me of an old Chinese story about a philosopher ( No offence intended)
.....he came to a river that he couldn't cross, but there was a ferryman in a rowing boat who offered to ferry him across.
Half way over the Philosopher asked " have you ever studied philosophy?"
the Ferryman replied " No!"
" Then" said the philosopher " You have lost half a life"
The boat began to ship water and sink. The ferryman said to the philosopher " Have you ever learned to swim?"
the philosopher replied " No!"
"Then" said the ferryman " you have lost the whole of a life"
I think that would also answer some of your socio political stuff as well
the Philosophy stuff gave me a headache....but reminded me of an old Chinese story about a philosopher ( No offence intended)
.....he came to a river that he couldn't cross, but there was a ferryman in a rowing boat who offered to ferry him across.Half way over the Philosopher asked " have you ever studied philosophy?"
the Ferryman replied " No!"
" Then" said the philosopher " You have lost half a life"
The boat began to ship water and sink. The ferryman said to the philosopher " Have you ever learned to swim?"
the philosopher replied " No!"
"Then" said the ferryman " you have lost the whole of a life"
I think that would also answer some of your socio political stuff as well
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Le Haggard
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 3:38 am
- Location: Ballard area of Seattle, Washington State
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jorvik
Hi Le,
sorry I can't remember the source of that quote, and I think that you're probably correct in assuming that it wasn't Chinese......just seemed appropriate.
I think the point that I was trying to make is that you shouldn't expect people to conform to your world view ( however well you can argue it, or justify it) and I consider things from a martial viewpoint....there are certain things that you don't do.....that I don't do, because I know it'll lead to tears,areas that I won't go into after dark. To give a graphic example I wouldn't walk around Palestine draped in an American flag at the present time
sorry I can't remember the source of that quote, and I think that you're probably correct in assuming that it wasn't Chinese......just seemed appropriate.
I think the point that I was trying to make is that you shouldn't expect people to conform to your world view ( however well you can argue it, or justify it) and I consider things from a martial viewpoint....there are certain things that you don't do.....that I don't do, because I know it'll lead to tears,areas that I won't go into after dark. To give a graphic example I wouldn't walk around Palestine draped in an American flag at the present time
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Le Haggard
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 3:38 am
- Location: Ballard area of Seattle, Washington State
-
jorvik
Hi LE,
Don't misunderstand me over the socio politico stuff about women, i luv to see attractive women dressed in sexy clothing ( and I won't whistle or make rude comments, as the construction workers in my country do )............and it won't lead to me wanting to do anything more than look..................however, this is the real world 
.........if a woman killed a would be attacker then I would say " Well Done"
It seems to be the Law and Lawyers who are restricting our rights.........in my country if I defend myself against an attack I can be dealt with severley by the courts.......however, the liberal system that condems me ( and which is based on precedent )...deals very liberaly with criminals who attack innocent householders.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see were this is leading
...........rather than make the law something to be respected it creates the reverse effect and could lead to anarchy....the far right are doing very well in the poles at present 
Now, even though I work within the law, if my life or that of my family were threatened I would behave like the worst type of criminal and show total disregard for the legal system..............I've seen it so abused over the years that I am sure I could do the same
Which brings us to Spirituality........I am not an immortal ......I have a consciousness that resides within a body, the body may be my vehicle, but then again it may be all I have......I do not have limitless time or limitless opportunities to do things.
I need to know what things are and not their hype ( I'm referring here to ma's and spirituality......I tend to look for people who have found or appear to have found something rather than ask philosophical questions.
As an example " If a tree falls in a forest,and no one sees it fall would it have fallen?......my responce " Who cares"
however.
quote
" The ancient masters were subtle, mysterious, profound, responsive.
The depth of their knowledge is unfathomable
because it is unfathomable
All we can do is describe their appearance.
Watchful, like men crossing a winter stream
Alert, like men aware of danger
Courteous, like visiting guests
Yielding, like ice about to melt
Simple, like uncarved blocks of wood.
Hollow, like caves
Opaque, like muddy pools."
This is much more my cup of tea.
Don't misunderstand me over the socio politico stuff about women, i luv to see attractive women dressed in sexy clothing ( and I won't whistle or make rude comments, as the construction workers in my country do
)............and it won't lead to me wanting to do anything more than look..................however, this is the real world .........if a woman killed a would be attacker then I would say " Well Done"It seems to be the Law and Lawyers who are restricting our rights.........in my country if I defend myself against an attack I can be dealt with severley by the courts.......however, the liberal system that condems me ( and which is based on precedent )...deals very liberaly with criminals who attack innocent householders.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see were this is leading
...........rather than make the law something to be respected it creates the reverse effect and could lead to anarchy....the far right are doing very well in the poles at present Now, even though I work within the law, if my life or that of my family were threatened I would behave like the worst type of criminal and show total disregard for the legal system..............I've seen it so abused over the years that I am sure I could do the same
Which brings us to Spirituality........I am not an immortal
......I have a consciousness that resides within a body, the body may be my vehicle, but then again it may be all I have......I do not have limitless time or limitless opportunities to do things. I need to know what things are and not their hype ( I'm referring here to ma's and spirituality......I tend to look for people who have found or appear to have found something rather than ask philosophical questions.
As an example " If a tree falls in a forest,and no one sees it fall would it have fallen?......my responce " Who cares"
however.
quote
" The ancient masters were subtle, mysterious, profound, responsive.
The depth of their knowledge is unfathomable
because it is unfathomable
All we can do is describe their appearance.
Watchful, like men crossing a winter stream
Alert, like men aware of danger
Courteous, like visiting guests
Yielding, like ice about to melt
Simple, like uncarved blocks of wood.
Hollow, like caves
Opaque, like muddy pools."
This is much more my cup of tea.
Hi
Hi,
I think the message in the pseudo Chinese was that whilst the Philosopher thought he was above the Ferryman for knowing about Philosophy, the Ferryman had pragmatic knowledge which is more important.
i.e. Street smarts are more valueable than academics.
As some people say Philosophy is 'Mental Masturbation'.
The Philosophical statement about the tree is not whether it falls or not. It is;
If a tree falls over in a forest does it make a sound.
tha answer is obvious.
RK
I think the message in the pseudo Chinese was that whilst the Philosopher thought he was above the Ferryman for knowing about Philosophy, the Ferryman had pragmatic knowledge which is more important.
i.e. Street smarts are more valueable than academics.
As some people say Philosophy is 'Mental Masturbation'.
The Philosophical statement about the tree is not whether it falls or not. It is;
If a tree falls over in a forest does it make a sound.
tha answer is obvious.
RK
Music is the space in between the notes
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Le Haggard
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 3:38 am
- Location: Ballard area of Seattle, Washington State
Le-sama,
Some comments on your post, especially about predetermination.
There's a concept in math called a "finite infinity." The best description I can give is actually an example.
How many points are contained within a one inch ruling?
Answer: An infinite number of points are contained within an inch rule.
Hence a finite infinity.
Behavior is a set of possibilities residing within a finite infinity determined by a finite infinity of variables.
Certain portions that limit our variables include the Laws of Physics (gravity, heat, radiation, motion, friction, etc), biology (one does not spontaneously change gender, for example), environment (without air, water and food, you are going to expire).
As such, within that confined range of possibilities, there is a range of responses each of us has to the various influences from our environment and from within ourselves.
This is what makes the concept of predestination a flawed concept in general, especially with regards to internal states, which are not readily monitored or controlled for in experimental or phenomenological studies.
Just a few points in a couple of open moments.
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com
Some comments on your post, especially about predetermination.
There's a concept in math called a "finite infinity." The best description I can give is actually an example.
How many points are contained within a one inch ruling?
Answer: An infinite number of points are contained within an inch rule.
Hence a finite infinity.
Behavior is a set of possibilities residing within a finite infinity determined by a finite infinity of variables.
Certain portions that limit our variables include the Laws of Physics (gravity, heat, radiation, motion, friction, etc), biology (one does not spontaneously change gender, for example), environment (without air, water and food, you are going to expire).
As such, within that confined range of possibilities, there is a range of responses each of us has to the various influences from our environment and from within ourselves.
This is what makes the concept of predestination a flawed concept in general, especially with regards to internal states, which are not readily monitored or controlled for in experimental or phenomenological studies.
Just a few points in a couple of open moments.
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com
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jorvik
quote
"This is what makes the concept of predestination a flawed concept in general, especially with regards to internal states, which are not readily monitored or controlled for in experimental or phenomenological studies."
But the ruler is still there........what about the next inch? and the next finite infinity is surely part of infinity. Is the ruler an infinite ruler or what?..............( excuse me
.........my brain mode is set to basic simplicity) these things tend to baffle me and if I thought about them too long it would stop me ordering my next beer and as my alcohol levels are seriously depleted......partly by the anxt caused by this last post .......and the necessary grey matter ( English spelling) needed to think about it well ........gonna have to sleep on that one
"This is what makes the concept of predestination a flawed concept in general, especially with regards to internal states, which are not readily monitored or controlled for in experimental or phenomenological studies."
But the ruler is still there........what about the next inch? and the next finite infinity is surely part of infinity. Is the ruler an infinite ruler or what?..............( excuse me
.........my brain mode is set to basic simplicity) these things tend to baffle me and if I thought about them too long it would stop me ordering my next beer and as my alcohol levels are seriously depleted......partly by the anxt caused by this last post .......and the necessary grey matter ( English spelling) needed to think about it well ........gonna have to sleep on that one-
Le Haggard
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 3:38 am
- Location: Ballard area of Seattle, Washington State
