This is something I've heard discussed offline... should there be any set of physical standards that accompany Uechi rank? It seems silly to say that a shodan has to be able to run a mile in X minutes or do X pushups... but isn't there SOME minimum we'd like to see? For example, the mental picture I have of a blackbelt doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the Chris Farley of "Beverly Hill's Ninja," unable to do moderate exertion without becoming short of breath. Do people feel that fitness (I would prefer it defined functionally, not by BMI) is something that a karateka should aspite to, and therefore something worth measuring, or requiring? Or that the kata and sparring sessions set minimum fitness criteria and we don't need any others? Or that fitness is a separate beast from martial arts? What exemptions or qualifications would people tack on (for medical illness or physical limitations or age)?
(note: have not seen the film, just the trailer)
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000 ... ZZZZZZ.jpg
Uechi and Fitness Standards
Moderator: Available
-
f.Channell
- Posts: 3541
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Valhalla
IJ,
The sparring section of the test is 2-2 minute rounds. Unless it's been recently changed.
So you can call this the minimum standard.
Now to a guy 45 off the street that two minutes is a long time.
A two minute fight is much longer you may agree than the average street fight.
I make sure my students can go 2 minutes, regardless of age.
Some would argue that the Kata give you all the fitness you need. I do feel they increase overall health and condition.
I run and weight lift to augment my Uechi but that is a personal choice.
Since I also train in Judo, and they are 5 minute matches with a one minute rest in between until you lose, I need a higher fitness level.
When fitness levels have come up in the past I have been for it, but perhaps wiser minds prevailed.
I feel that the test and overall fitness of the black belt candidates In the IUKF are as good or better than any other group.
F.
The sparring section of the test is 2-2 minute rounds. Unless it's been recently changed.
So you can call this the minimum standard.
Now to a guy 45 off the street that two minutes is a long time.
A two minute fight is much longer you may agree than the average street fight.
I make sure my students can go 2 minutes, regardless of age.
Some would argue that the Kata give you all the fitness you need. I do feel they increase overall health and condition.
I run and weight lift to augment my Uechi but that is a personal choice.
Since I also train in Judo, and they are 5 minute matches with a one minute rest in between until you lose, I need a higher fitness level.
When fitness levels have come up in the past I have been for it, but perhaps wiser minds prevailed.
I feel that the test and overall fitness of the black belt candidates In the IUKF are as good or better than any other group.
F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
www.hinghamkarate.com
Personally, I don't see a reason for it. In my mind, if you're fit enough to perform the various portions of the test adequately to pass, then that demonstrates sufficient fitness.
If someone is very slow and obviously huffing and puffing and struggling to get through the test then I would think it's reasonable to consider that grounds for failure. But if someone had a confounding medical condition such as asthma, I think that should be taken into consideration.
Just two cents from someone who isn't even a shodan himself.
If someone is very slow and obviously huffing and puffing and struggling to get through the test then I would think it's reasonable to consider that grounds for failure. But if someone had a confounding medical condition such as asthma, I think that should be taken into consideration.
Just two cents from someone who isn't even a shodan himself.
-
Guest
Shouldn,t matter how far you can run or how many push ups you can do...it's got nothing to do with kata or martial arts.
If you can stand your own with other shodans or wipe the floor with a few of them , then I think you have indicated you have some martial skills.
Body fat is not an issue martial skills is the issue.
Just my opinion...but I think the present method of awarding dan ranks has been effective , if it ain't broke why fix it.
If you can stand your own with other shodans or wipe the floor with a few of them , then I think you have indicated you have some martial skills.
Body fat is not an issue martial skills is the issue.
Just my opinion...but I think the present method of awarding dan ranks has been effective , if it ain't broke why fix it.
-
benzocaine
- Posts: 2107
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:20 pm
- Location: St. Thomas
I think that after the thousands of hours of practicing kata you should be pretty fit. Whether one can do a great kata or not should show the candidate's fitness.
I see your point though Ian. I would sincerely hope each sponsering Sensei would not put an out of shape "practitioner" up as a candidate.
As for Chris Farley.. I'm not sure if it was the cocaine he was doing or what, but he could do a cartwheel that could keep right up there with John Balushi
I see your point though Ian. I would sincerely hope each sponsering Sensei would not put an out of shape "practitioner" up as a candidate.
As for Chris Farley.. I'm not sure if it was the cocaine he was doing or what, but he could do a cartwheel that could keep right up there with John Balushi
Hi to all,
I am agree that a Minimum should exists and if a candidate is below that minimum he should not pass.
The candidates who are in doubt about their condition should have the oportunity to make a "pre-test", just to be sure of their level (avoiding a failure is better, considering that some people get disappointed about them self or about his/her instruction after a failure, remember we do not want to loose students because of this).
In the case of not being at the appropriate level, he/she must consider taking some extra time to became better.
Of course, taking in count age, medical conditions, etc. the "minimum of fitness" should be replaced with another, the "minimum of undestanding" (being able to explain how the uechi-ryu system works for his/her corresponding degree level).
This is because if you are not able to perform "a technique" you should find an "alternate work around" for that technique that fit your condition (health, strength, capabilities).
I am sure that a candidate of 60 years old, has a different vision about uechi-ryu system than a candidate of 20 years old.
Saludos,
Diego
I am agree that a Minimum should exists and if a candidate is below that minimum he should not pass.
The candidates who are in doubt about their condition should have the oportunity to make a "pre-test", just to be sure of their level (avoiding a failure is better, considering that some people get disappointed about them self or about his/her instruction after a failure, remember we do not want to loose students because of this).
In the case of not being at the appropriate level, he/she must consider taking some extra time to became better.
Of course, taking in count age, medical conditions, etc. the "minimum of fitness" should be replaced with another, the "minimum of undestanding" (being able to explain how the uechi-ryu system works for his/her corresponding degree level).
This is because if you are not able to perform "a technique" you should find an "alternate work around" for that technique that fit your condition (health, strength, capabilities).
I am sure that a candidate of 60 years old, has a different vision about uechi-ryu system than a candidate of 20 years old.
Saludos,
Diego
The standards should reflect the goals of what the training is trying to accomplish.
The fixation on pushups and situps confuses me, as does the "2- minute match".
Why on Earth would you want a fight to last two minutes? I've never seen a real one that did.
How would you feel about a "candidate" who could not last a 2-minute match, but could bust your ass in 3 1/2 seconds once the rules were taken away?
Pass or fail?
If Uechi Ryu training is to teach you how to do pushups and situps, then of course they should be in the test. However I believe this is not the case; in fact, far from it.
NM
The fixation on pushups and situps confuses me, as does the "2- minute match".
Why on Earth would you want a fight to last two minutes? I've never seen a real one that did.
How would you feel about a "candidate" who could not last a 2-minute match, but could bust your ass in 3 1/2 seconds once the rules were taken away?
Pass or fail?
If Uechi Ryu training is to teach you how to do pushups and situps, then of course they should be in the test. However I believe this is not the case; in fact, far from it.
NM
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Opiions are like noses - everyone's got one, and they come in all sizes and shapes.
Others can think what they want, follow style standards, or complain about those who make it and don't seem worthy. I set my own standards, and expect the most out of my students. It isn't an absolute standard, mind you. It's being the best that you can be, and that ideal should be something one step ahead of where you are.
Does it make a difference in a fight? Some would argue no. Fine... But to get good at this business, you need to be in it for the long run. And to be in it for the long run, you need to be hardy. And that doesn't come by being in half-a$$ed shape and fantasizing about fights that never were.
Modern training techniques carry folks pretty far. And I'm not just talking about physical attributes, although they are important. One could argue that psychological and spiritual fitness are just as important.
And just how do you measure all that?
- Bill
Others can think what they want, follow style standards, or complain about those who make it and don't seem worthy. I set my own standards, and expect the most out of my students. It isn't an absolute standard, mind you. It's being the best that you can be, and that ideal should be something one step ahead of where you are.
Does it make a difference in a fight? Some would argue no. Fine... But to get good at this business, you need to be in it for the long run. And to be in it for the long run, you need to be hardy. And that doesn't come by being in half-a$$ed shape and fantasizing about fights that never were.
Modern training techniques carry folks pretty far. And I'm not just talking about physical attributes, although they are important. One could argue that psychological and spiritual fitness are just as important.
And just how do you measure all that?
- Bill
Preliminaries: clearly there are minimum standards imposed by sparring matches and doing kata. If someone couldn't get through seisan they wouldn't be testing for shodan. That's not a very high bar, however... I also agree that most everyone would agree there would be accomodations for age and medical condition (asthma would very rarely be one of these--it ought to be correctable unless there was a "flare" ongoing at test time. If someone one the other hand is wheezy because they didn't prepare themselves, that reflects on their readiness to defend themselves outside of class too). As for the test in question, I have no "fixation" on situps and pushups; those are just familiar exercises to start a discussion with, and I specified that I didn't think testing should be about fat but about fitness.
I guess the underlying question is this: does Uechi "mean" or require anything beyond what is on the test? I think it does. Afterall, the tests I've seen have asked people to answer questions about Uechi history and technique AFTER the physical test was completed. I think most judges would also fail a candidate who appeared to be too impulsive, critical, cruel or otherwise did not display the mindset of uechi even if infractions occured off the dojo floor of the testing site. That is not an attitude we want to "promote," literally or figuratively or by failure to act.
So similarly, does not or should not being a blackbelt inspire us to higher physical standards than are measured on the test? Consider...
--what we would find to be an inspiring example as an instructor or upper level student to the remainder of the students and potential students
--what is actually useful in a FIGHT... it was mentioned that a 2 minute match isn't the street standard (although its the ONLY unscripted measure of ability to defend oneself against attacks and start their own and it would seem fatal to remove it)... well, squaring off in any context isn't, and the BEST test of ability to protect oneself is probably one of street smarts and sprinting speed rather than the ability to spar. If we're going to make the test one more of jutsu than do, than perhaps we ought to have more streetlike testing of fighting and thinking skills.
So I guess the question can be rephrased, what do people like and dislike about criteria for promotion and how would they alter the tests if at all? They're probably not PERFECT, right?
I guess the underlying question is this: does Uechi "mean" or require anything beyond what is on the test? I think it does. Afterall, the tests I've seen have asked people to answer questions about Uechi history and technique AFTER the physical test was completed. I think most judges would also fail a candidate who appeared to be too impulsive, critical, cruel or otherwise did not display the mindset of uechi even if infractions occured off the dojo floor of the testing site. That is not an attitude we want to "promote," literally or figuratively or by failure to act.
So similarly, does not or should not being a blackbelt inspire us to higher physical standards than are measured on the test? Consider...
--what we would find to be an inspiring example as an instructor or upper level student to the remainder of the students and potential students
--what is actually useful in a FIGHT... it was mentioned that a 2 minute match isn't the street standard (although its the ONLY unscripted measure of ability to defend oneself against attacks and start their own and it would seem fatal to remove it)... well, squaring off in any context isn't, and the BEST test of ability to protect oneself is probably one of street smarts and sprinting speed rather than the ability to spar. If we're going to make the test one more of jutsu than do, than perhaps we ought to have more streetlike testing of fighting and thinking skills.
So I guess the question can be rephrased, what do people like and dislike about criteria for promotion and how would they alter the tests if at all? They're probably not PERFECT, right?
--Ian
-
RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
A different perpective (long)...
Hello all. Bill asked me to add my 'Marine' perspective to this thread. So, off comes the Uechi gi and on go the utilities (cammies to some).
This thread started on the premise of a civilian dojo requirement. From the Marine perpective, conditioning is everything. A Marine is first and always a rifleman, but he/she must be prepared to fight under very adverse conditions (hot and dusty perhaps) for protracted periods of time perhaps after an eight hour hump (long hike) with a full load of gear.
If the expectation is that your technique of doom will end a fight in seconds then conditioning is secondary. However, unless you are prepared you might fail to survive your encounter because you were not able to end it within your fitness window.
The entry level of conditioning in the USMC is called the PFT. It consists of a 3 mile run, max situps in a minute and max pullups in a minute. A perfect score is 300 points, and that requires the run being completed in 18 minutes or less. To be considered first class you need to run it well under 21 minutes. If you want to be promoted, anything less than first class will end that goal.
Age is factored in. It is scored differently (a bit easier) once you hit 27 (I'm 51) as the body does slow down a bit over the years. But overall, a 55 year old general officer and a 17 year old recruit are held to the same standard. Everyone is tested yearly for fitness, marksmanship, and in the tear gas chamber. Also, a very rigid weight/height standard is maintained. For instance, at 6'1" I must maintain my weight under 209 lbs.
All Marines are now expected to be martial artists as well as riflemen. This has created a whole new paradigm. The program is quite intense and requires additional training for all Marines. Like fitness, the 55 year old general officer must achieve and maintain the same level of USMC martial arts skills as the 17 year old. All Marines can get by with the minimum, but if they expect to be promoted, or even to stay a Marine, the minimum is not sufficient.
The training as you progress through the MA ranks is brutal to say the least. The MA workout might not begin until after a three mile run through the woods in boots, utes and gear. You train in whatever the weather is (however, this time of year they watch the heat and humidity closely). Yesterday's morning warmup for the black belt instructor/trainers' class lasted three hours, and unfortunately one lad did require treatment for dehydration.
The bottom line is that the Marines are building warriors capable of fighting on through the worst conditions for however long it lasts with whatever weapons and supplies are available. These men/women are physically and mentally equipped for the worst situations.
I can say personally that my Uechi background prepared me pretty well to endure the Marine Martial Art training requirements. But I also spend three or more days a week in the gym outside of Uechi and the Marine training.
In fact the worst thing about the Marine Martial Arts training is not the Marine Martial Arts training, as nasty as it is. It is the amount of training I do on my own to stay up with the program demands that really wears me down. That is what enables me to pretty much handle whatever they throw at me. The Uechi training alone would not meet the minimum requirements of fitness.
As an aside, my flexibility training sets me apart and helps me survive training with a bunch of kids. The commanding officer of the program is 48 or 49, and he can run circles around me. However, it is evident in his face that his joints are really a problem. After asking me about how I deal with the aches and pains, he promptly took my advice and went out and bought a big bottle of glucosamine!
Perhaps many will think this is off of the real subject. I think not. Except for a few gifted natural athletes, conditioning is a huge part of being a warrior, civilian or professional.
So, yes, I believe we should have some minimum condition level achieved before testing for shodan. What that level is, that is the question. A mile run perhaps? Our club is in a great gym and as a result most members are above average in fitness already so we have a head start.
We need to hear from Rory on this. Any other military personnel out there?
Rich
This thread started on the premise of a civilian dojo requirement. From the Marine perpective, conditioning is everything. A Marine is first and always a rifleman, but he/she must be prepared to fight under very adverse conditions (hot and dusty perhaps) for protracted periods of time perhaps after an eight hour hump (long hike) with a full load of gear.
If the expectation is that your technique of doom will end a fight in seconds then conditioning is secondary. However, unless you are prepared you might fail to survive your encounter because you were not able to end it within your fitness window.
The entry level of conditioning in the USMC is called the PFT. It consists of a 3 mile run, max situps in a minute and max pullups in a minute. A perfect score is 300 points, and that requires the run being completed in 18 minutes or less. To be considered first class you need to run it well under 21 minutes. If you want to be promoted, anything less than first class will end that goal.
Age is factored in. It is scored differently (a bit easier) once you hit 27 (I'm 51) as the body does slow down a bit over the years. But overall, a 55 year old general officer and a 17 year old recruit are held to the same standard. Everyone is tested yearly for fitness, marksmanship, and in the tear gas chamber. Also, a very rigid weight/height standard is maintained. For instance, at 6'1" I must maintain my weight under 209 lbs.
All Marines are now expected to be martial artists as well as riflemen. This has created a whole new paradigm. The program is quite intense and requires additional training for all Marines. Like fitness, the 55 year old general officer must achieve and maintain the same level of USMC martial arts skills as the 17 year old. All Marines can get by with the minimum, but if they expect to be promoted, or even to stay a Marine, the minimum is not sufficient.
The training as you progress through the MA ranks is brutal to say the least. The MA workout might not begin until after a three mile run through the woods in boots, utes and gear. You train in whatever the weather is (however, this time of year they watch the heat and humidity closely). Yesterday's morning warmup for the black belt instructor/trainers' class lasted three hours, and unfortunately one lad did require treatment for dehydration.
The bottom line is that the Marines are building warriors capable of fighting on through the worst conditions for however long it lasts with whatever weapons and supplies are available. These men/women are physically and mentally equipped for the worst situations.
I can say personally that my Uechi background prepared me pretty well to endure the Marine Martial Art training requirements. But I also spend three or more days a week in the gym outside of Uechi and the Marine training.
In fact the worst thing about the Marine Martial Arts training is not the Marine Martial Arts training, as nasty as it is. It is the amount of training I do on my own to stay up with the program demands that really wears me down. That is what enables me to pretty much handle whatever they throw at me. The Uechi training alone would not meet the minimum requirements of fitness.
As an aside, my flexibility training sets me apart and helps me survive training with a bunch of kids. The commanding officer of the program is 48 or 49, and he can run circles around me. However, it is evident in his face that his joints are really a problem. After asking me about how I deal with the aches and pains, he promptly took my advice and went out and bought a big bottle of glucosamine!
Perhaps many will think this is off of the real subject. I think not. Except for a few gifted natural athletes, conditioning is a huge part of being a warrior, civilian or professional.
So, yes, I believe we should have some minimum condition level achieved before testing for shodan. What that level is, that is the question. A mile run perhaps? Our club is in a great gym and as a result most members are above average in fitness already so we have a head start.
We need to hear from Rory on this. Any other military personnel out there?
Rich
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
-
benzocaine
- Posts: 2107
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:20 pm
- Location: St. Thomas
Nothing personal Rich for picking you to quoteSo, yes, I believe we should have some minimum condition level achieved before testing for shodan. What that level is, that is the question. A mile run perhaps?
[rant]
I have to admit. I HATE running. I have had back surgery and I get all sorts of aches and pains from it. It's hard on the joints. Stick me in a pool for half an hour and let me do laps.
I work 12 hour shifts and between them, going to class a couple times a week, and having a relationship with my wife, I hardly use my gym membership. BUT, I practice my karate in my living room, take the stairs at work(2 at a time), do all my own yardwork, walk my dogs ect. ect.
I don't lift weights but I do pushups, ab excersizes, hindu squats and work to improve my kata and kumite.
My main cardio is doing 10 back to back Seisans with spirit and intensity.. this is of course after practicing all my other kata's a few times a peice,hojo undo, Dan kumite(against an invisible partner), and working different techniques. I'll spend around 50 minutes doing all of this before my work day where I'll spend 12 hours on my feet with a pager going off all day calling me from one problem or another to fix. Some therapists I work with have put pedometers on and they estimate we walk about 5- 7 miles a day. I'm off today so I'll spend a little longer in my workout.
I recently checked out a Kung Fu school in the area and they began each class with 1/2 hour of different sorts of pushups, ab excersizes, and beleive it or not they even had us doing pullups. In their school handbook they even tell you to do strengthening excersizes every other day and to stretch every evening
Maybee we need that in Uechi. How many of us have heard "I'm not going to waste time on pushups... you can do those at home"? and then look around the class and know damn well that half of the people there rarely even practice their kata let alone do pushups or crunches!?
So what I'm getting at is should we also add calistenics to the actual Uechi curiculum? If so just set the standard!! People will meet it.. that is if they want the coveted Dan rank.
In my opinion it's silly we even have to discuss this. Anyone who claims to be serious about his art would be embarrased to workout with a group of people and be the one huffing and puffing. Does anyone actually see any recent Shodans who were out of shape? I wasn't aware this was a problem.
Throw a fitness test at me! Set a standard. I'll do it, and if I can't I'll train so I can, but damnit everyone else better be able to as well.
Hence the word standard[/rant]-
f.Channell
- Posts: 3541
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Valhalla
http://www.coolrunning.com/results/99/m ... _set1.html
Look for the last name. This was the last race around 3.1 miles I did.
7.20 minute miles roughly.
With some of Rich's marines chasing me take off another minute
.
F.
Look for the last name. This was the last race around 3.1 miles I did.
7.20 minute miles roughly.
With some of Rich's marines chasing me take off another minute
.F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
www.hinghamkarate.com
-
RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
Great comments all. I refrained from posting until Bill called me as the Marine agenda is extreme. However, he wanted me to put something on the board as a reference.
I was told in late 2002 that I could stay in the program and work for the MCMAP blackbelt. The caveat was that I had to do what every other Marine was doing, no gimmes. At that time I was in good shape but not great shape. I had to move up the training a few notches and hold it there, which I did for about 18 months.
The MCMAP black belt test was in late March 2004, which I passed. Part of the test was to be the 'meat puppet' (uke in our terms) for a Marine testing for his brown belt. Being tossed around and slammed for 30 minutes was my 'warmup' and probably the toughest part for me that morning. Good falling technique was a must.
After that I was given a chance to take part in the Instructor/Trainer class pretty much as a drop in for whatever I wanted to learn. I stayed out of the most brutal portions and partook of the academic portions. The last evil training I participated in was the OC (pepper spray) evolution. That was so unpleasant I decided to take it easy for the summer, which I have.
At this point, I am beginning to turn up the training again as I have the opportunity to go for the MCMAP 2nd degree black belt. To be honest though, I do not know if I want to deal with the unpleasantness involved. I truly need 48 hours minimum to recover from a workout.
I was planning to hang it up at Quantico next week but have been encouraged to keep it up for another 18 months. We shall see.
The Marine program was not designed with 50+ year olds in mind. In fact, I have yet to see someone my age participate at this level. One reason they like having me around is to be a poster boy for the gray hairs. Even in the Marine Corps, maybe moreso because of the physical demands, the bodies get creaky.
One sacrifice I had to make was in the area of Uechi-ryu. I could not do both at a high level so have cut back my Uechi to once a week. Unfortunately, it shows.
Also, my caloric intake was adjusted to hard workouts. Since I cut back my workouts but not my intake I have put on over 5 pounds and am approaching the 208 limit for my height. Being able to eat as much as I want was a side benefit. I need to address that soon or will not fit in my utilities.
If we tried to impose this sort of regimine in our Uechi dojo I suspect membership would fall quickly. MCMAP stle training is for young warfighters, not civilians.
As for general fitness training, I take everyone in my beginner classes through a 20 minute stretch up front. Unless I do this I do not believe many would even try. To me, flexibility is the #1 protection against injuries and is worth the time.
Rich
I was told in late 2002 that I could stay in the program and work for the MCMAP blackbelt. The caveat was that I had to do what every other Marine was doing, no gimmes. At that time I was in good shape but not great shape. I had to move up the training a few notches and hold it there, which I did for about 18 months.
The MCMAP black belt test was in late March 2004, which I passed. Part of the test was to be the 'meat puppet' (uke in our terms) for a Marine testing for his brown belt. Being tossed around and slammed for 30 minutes was my 'warmup' and probably the toughest part for me that morning. Good falling technique was a must.
After that I was given a chance to take part in the Instructor/Trainer class pretty much as a drop in for whatever I wanted to learn. I stayed out of the most brutal portions and partook of the academic portions. The last evil training I participated in was the OC (pepper spray) evolution. That was so unpleasant I decided to take it easy for the summer, which I have.
At this point, I am beginning to turn up the training again as I have the opportunity to go for the MCMAP 2nd degree black belt. To be honest though, I do not know if I want to deal with the unpleasantness involved. I truly need 48 hours minimum to recover from a workout.
I was planning to hang it up at Quantico next week but have been encouraged to keep it up for another 18 months. We shall see.
The Marine program was not designed with 50+ year olds in mind. In fact, I have yet to see someone my age participate at this level. One reason they like having me around is to be a poster boy for the gray hairs. Even in the Marine Corps, maybe moreso because of the physical demands, the bodies get creaky.
One sacrifice I had to make was in the area of Uechi-ryu. I could not do both at a high level so have cut back my Uechi to once a week. Unfortunately, it shows.
Also, my caloric intake was adjusted to hard workouts. Since I cut back my workouts but not my intake I have put on over 5 pounds and am approaching the 208 limit for my height. Being able to eat as much as I want was a side benefit. I need to address that soon or will not fit in my utilities.
If we tried to impose this sort of regimine in our Uechi dojo I suspect membership would fall quickly. MCMAP stle training is for young warfighters, not civilians.
As for general fitness training, I take everyone in my beginner classes through a 20 minute stretch up front. Unless I do this I do not believe many would even try. To me, flexibility is the #1 protection against injuries and is worth the time.
Rich
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Maybe, and maybe not.If we tried to impose this sort of regimine in our Uechi dojo I suspect membership would fall quickly.
In a different setting (teaching at U.Va.), I discovered that students were more likely to stay if I challenged them. Many come into an activity like martial arts because of the demands, and not to avoid it. I discovered the hard way that the best get disillusioned and quit when the instructors bow to the whining of a vocal minority. When I started with a large class in the beginning of a semester, I would tell them up fron that I was going to work them hard and try to make them quit. And you know what? I ended up with more AND better students than when I obsessed about losing students and bowed to the whining and moaning.
One needs to be sensitive to the needs of individuals. However pushing people beyond their present state is exactly what most want and need (even when they tell you otherwise).
Rich mentioned Rory stepping by. Indeed in our conversations, I mentioned to Rich that Rory often asks what paradigm people are training for. Sometimes we think we know what we want/need for a fighting system, and sometimes not. Sometimes we think we know what a system initially was intended to be like, and sometimes not.
Uechi in the context of the Boxer rebellion era was a style amongst warriors. Warriors must be capable of briskly going to the point of battle, fighting the battle in spite of the previous physical exertion, and then heading back home. A warrior must be prepared to survive no matter what the baseline physiologic operating point, because (s)he may be the attackee rather than the attacker. The enemy will not choose to fight you when you are at your best. And the enemy isn't going to attack you in a fair setting where you get to do your techniques o doom on one person at a time. You must be capable of putting in a "good enough" effort when you are at your worst. And you must be capable of surviving the many-on-one assault. That requires a certain minimum level of conditioning.
Ben brings up a few interesting points. Indeed I am with him; I don't like to run any more. Go figure...I came from track. Problem is, I don't have a lateral meniscus in my right knee any more. I prefer to get my fitness training on the low impact machines in the gym. But if the situation demanded, I could put in the physical effort and perform, and worry about my knee later. Because I am careful about the way I achieve my fitness, I can survive short periods of abuse and stay in it for the long run.
This is one reason why I like teaching in a gym. I think fitness is important. However I don't want to waste valuable class time bringing people through the daily dozen. I want (and expect) students to do their own conditioning programs, and most do that. I do however like to see beginners pushed hard to let them know what can be done before I send them on their own with that part of their training.
Will we lose most of our students if we ask more of them? Maybe and maybe not. One size doesn't fit all on the conditioning end. If you give people the ability to choose their own fitness regimens, most will do fine and can stay in it for the long run.
Do we see students huff and puff at shodan tests? I do... It's not pretty, and it isn't right to see such students pass (IMO). It lowers the value of a Uechi shodan if marginal students pass. Do we lose too many students if we ask more of them from a fitness point of view? How about putting it another way. Do we want to keep these kinds of students and call them good Uechika?
I'm not talking about a Darwinian process here. You'd be surprised at what people will achieve when you demand it of them, work with them, and give them enough time to achieve the standard.
And remember, not being able to pass the next test because you don't want to meet the fitness standard doesn't mean a student can't stay and train. It just means they won't advance.
- Bill
