What's a terrorist to do?

[Bill Glasheen]

From The Wall Street Journal

Seconds after passengers spotted flames climbing above the back of a window seat midway down the left side of Northwest Flight 253, Friday's routine descent toward Detroit's main airport turned into horror, mayhem and instant heroism.

Just as the widebody Airbus A330 made a rumbling sound as the landing gear started down, horrified travelers in seats around the young Nigerian later detained as a terrorism suspect started screaming, according to eyewitness reports by passengers. Flight attendants quickly joined the hubbub around the man in seat 19A, repeatedly screaming "What are you doing?"

There was a pop and then smoke wafted through the cabin. A passenger then climbed over several seats, lunged across the aisle and managed to subdue the suspect, the eyewitnesses said. The Nigerian man was placed in a headlock before being dragged up to the first class cabin. Passenger Zeina Seagal told CNN that after the suspect was collared and parts of his burning pants were removed, flight attendants quickly grabbed fire extinguishers and doused the fire at his seat.

I don't know about you all. But this hero would have to beat me to him. Why allow someone to hold your fate in their hands when you could hold your own fate instead? The rules have changed. I think there is probably at least one passenger on board today who wouldn't think twice about lunging into the fray.

At one point during the ordeal, passengers were told that the man who helped subdue the alleged attacker was exiting the plane. A female passenger who was seated 13 rows behind the suspect recalled the scene clearly. The woman, a nurse from Dayton, Ohio, described a blonde man with his fingers individually bandaged, and another bandage around his palm. A few people, she said, began to clap as he walked by.

Reflecting the new, more proactive security role that has emerged for passengers in the wake of the 9-11 terrorist attacks in the U.S., Rep. Peter King (R., N.Y.) told Fox News, "they were the first responders in this attack; they got the job done."

Ba$stard was lucky I wasn't on the flight. Sheet happens when you're subduing an a$$hole on fire you know...

Parts of me hate what I become when others are in harm's way - which is why I avoid such situations when I can.

- Bill

[robb buckland]

"Ba$stard was lucky I wasn't on the flight. Sheet happens when you're subduing an a$$hole on fire you know...

Parts of me hate what I become when others are in harm's way........."

[AAAhmed46]

The guys own father thought he was nuts and complained.

There are so many irrelevant people on those watch lists, the real crazies get skipped.

But even then, he should have been given more attention, because his own father thought he was nuts.

[Bill Glasheen]

It wasn't just that he was "nuts." He got radicalized in a known al Qaeda training camp. His dad indeed gave the American embassy all the information they needed. And he probably did it for the protection of his son. Now he's likely to spend the rest of his life in jail. Who won here? Certainly not either the father (who did the right thing) or the boy.

But profile him? Blacklist him? Apparently not. We wouldn't want to offend anyone in this "love me" administration.



- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

From the Wall Street Journal...

The father of terror suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab met on Nov. 19 with the Central Intelligence Agency at the U.S. embassy in Abuja, Nigeria, and told of his son's likely radicalization, according to U.S. officials.

That led to a broader meeting the next day in which the information was shared with representatives of the Department of Homeland Security, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the State Department, a U.S. official said. Officials said it is unclear whether intelligence officials in Washington then effectively analyzed the information gathered in Nigeria.

Yep... Somebody really screwed the pooch on this one.

- Bill

[Jason Rees]

It's not just this country, either. Obama's a symptom, not the disease.

Christopher Hitchens does moral outrage... again.

[AAAhmed46]

It wasn't just that he was "nuts." He got radicalized in a known al Qaeda training camp. His dad indeed gave the American embassy all the information they needed. And he probably did it for the protection of his son. Now he's likely to spend the rest of his life in jail. Who won here? Certainly not either the father (who did the right thing) or the boy.

But profile him? Blacklist him? Apparently not. We wouldn't want to offend anyone in this "love me" administration.



- Bill

THe problem is even before obama, though obama just made it alot worse.

But then we have had oh...how many attempted terrorist attacks, and almost none of them were watched or halted? We just had the fort hood shooting, with a guy who basically telegraphed his views and intentions. Yet no one was keeping an eye on him? Remember the shoe, bomber? He was foiled while TRYING to pull it off. Or even in london. They were not really secretive either, but then no one was keeping tabs?

I remember before the new administrations, these lists would have people on there like Cat stevens, who though may have views that many would disagree with,was no terrorist, same with Arar(who was innocent, proven too) and many others.

So these men were scrutinized...but not Major Hassan? Not mutalib?

Who makes these lists?



At least CSIS was able to halt the toronto 17 before they did something stupid, it wasnt a close call like this. The intelligence acted well.

Racial profiling? Blah the guy was black. If you ask me, the name is more of a dead giveaway then the race. How useful would it be if a bunch of lebanese(whom have very europian features) or Bosnian/Chechnyans try any suicide attacks? Pretty useless then.

[Bill Glasheen]

THe problem is even before obama, though obama just made it alot worse.

You are right. We have multiple problems with Obama.

1) He campaigned on being a kinder, gentler leader. If only I say we are sorry... If only I extend an olive branch... If only I promise everyone we will be gone... If only the leader isn't George W Bush... Initially everyone bought the message - including and especially Major Hassan.

2) He sincerely believes that his charm campaign will make others (Iran, al-qaeda, etc.) play nicer with the United States.

3) It's been about a year now and he hasn't changed any policies with respect to boots on the soil of "Muslim" countries (if there is such a thing). Rather he just announced more troops for Afghanistan. And now we have regular drone attacks in Pakistan.

Somehow when YOU are the commander in chief, it's much more difficult to change the course of that ocean liner. Icebergs here we come!

But then we have had oh...how many attempted terrorist attacks, and almost none of them were watched or halted?.

Actually a lot. And almost all of them were stopped well before they happened. Spain's attack is the only one I can think of that was of any consequence. Some successes were publicized more than others.

Fort Hood was the first of what may be many for quite some time. And now we have al Qaeda operations in Yemen. That country is the new Afghanistan.

This kind of stuff has to be stopped well before it gets to the airport terminal. If Obama doesn't stay on the offensive (like the previous administration) we're in for some ugly weather.

- Bill

[Glenn]

What security policies have changed in the last 11 months to make these attacks Obama's, or any president's, fault? The Ft Hood attack and the attempted airliner attack both occurred under security policies that have been in place for at least a couple years. Or you have some information on Obama ordering a weakening of military-base and airport security?

[Bill Glasheen]

Glenn

Re-read my post above.

As for the massive intelligence failure, that is on Obama's watch. It took almost 4 days and an utterly ridiculous set of interviews of Janet Napolitano for Obama to wake up. On ABC This Week last Sunday, Janet gave an interview that made a reporter from The New York Times on that show say "that doesn't pass the laugh test." She REPEATEDLY took credit for the response on the plane, when it was a civilian who stopped it all. I was yelling at the television during the interview, and was thankful that the NYT commentator immediately jumped on it after the end of Napolitano's interview.

If there was anything that we should have learned from 9/11, it's that we need to act on what usually is information in plain sight. Known extremists training to fly planes in our own country? A Muslim psychiatrist proselytizing propaganda to his PTSD patients and expressing radical opinions to his peers? The father of a radicalized Muslim reporting to the US Embassy that his son was capable of doing great harm? Those are the kinds of in-your-face data points that need to be acted upon.

And let's not forget that Obama completely discredited and humiliated the CIA on the world stage. Workers there (I know) are disheartened and pizzed. Activity has been brought to a crawl with a new leader who doesn't know what the fuk he is doing. That's Obama's political play.

From the Wall Street Journal...

The father of terror suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab met on Nov. 19 with the Central Intelligence Agency at the U.S. embassy in Abuja, Nigeria, and told of his son's likely radicalization, according to U.S. officials.

That led to a broader meeting the next day in which the information was shared with representatives of the Department of Homeland Security, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the State Department, a U.S. official said. Officials said it is unclear whether intelligence officials in Washington then effectively analyzed the information gathered in Nigeria.

Would the old CIA have acted more aggressively than the new, improved (and defanged) CIA? It's a question worthy of consideration.

Obama is STARTING to grow some balls and take ownership. It remains to be seen if we can get back ahead of such situations.

- Bill

[Glenn]

Re-read my post above.

Well your post says Obama is not changing some policies but implies he has made changes to make such an attack suddenly more possible then it was under the past administrations. Let's not forget that the al-qaeda leader in Yemen who planned the attack and trained and equipped the Nigerian was released from Guantanamo in 2007 after promising that he would peacefully return to the family furniture business in Riyadh. I suppose if we must blame a president it should be Bush for that ball being dropped on his watch.

Other reports say the father met with diplomats who passed on the information to the CIA (rather than the father meeting with the CIA itself), who then put him on a watch list. The bomber already had a U.S. visa, which probably aided the intelligence failure after he bought the tickets in Ghana. clearly someone did not check the watch list who should have. But if anything this highlights that even 8 years after 9/11 agencies still are not communicating with each other like they should be.

[Bill Glasheen]

I suppose if we must blame a president it should be Bush for that ball being dropped on his watch.

The "blame Bush" excuse is wearing thin. It's been a year now. This is clearly on Obama's watch. No excuses.

This reminds me of when I took over the care of one son's fish (Siamese fighting fish) and the other son's dog (show-quality Ridgeback). The fish was sitting on the bottom of the tank, and the dog's ribs were showing. Plus the dog had major behavioral problems. So for about half a year, I nursed both to full health. The Siamese Fighting Fish grew his fins back, and would respond to you when you walked into the room. The dog looked ready for show. Then I turned the care over to both, and... The fish almost died (I revived him). The dog began getting ribby again.

I'm back in charge.

Security isn't something that you just turn on and ignore. Life happens. One needs constantly to be engaged. So the doves and the European know-it-alls whine, bitch, and moan about all the "prisoners of war" in Guantanamo who are being "mistreated." (Maybe they're getting cockmeat sandwiches as in Harold and Kumar???) So an honest effort is made to return some to their homes. Now you would THINK that the Saudi royal family (with fear of the Wahhabi extremists at home) would know how to deal with a couple of known terrorists. Apparently not. So they go off to Yemen ON YOUR WATCH and help grow a new al Qaeda camp to Taliban Afghanistan dimensions. Guess what? It's now YOUR RESPONSIBILITY because the sheet happened ON YOUR WATCH.

No more blame Bush. The "Blame Bush" line is a joke on many of the newspaper forums I follow. It really is getting to be pretty funny.

But if anything this highlights that even 8 years after 9/11 agencies still are not communicating with each other like they should be.

It highlights that there have been two (2) obvious failures in communication and appropriate action in the last half year. Again... on Obama's watch.

Blame Bush? Only if you mean it as a joke. Like him or hate him, he is out of the picture. He did a pretty damn good job stopping terrorism back when we were absolutely convinced there would be more (and frequent) terrorist attacks on our soil. "Not if, but when" was the mantra. Surprisingly enough, that didn't happen. But he did catch a whole lot of sheet - warranted or not - for what he did to accomplish that. And now? He's off the hook at this point.

- Bill

[Valkenar]

Bill, remind me again who you blamed 9/11 on?

Personally, I didn't blame Bush for failing to stop that and I don't blame Obama for failing to stop this. Generally I don't think a president can reasonably be blamed for failing to stop terrorist attacks in the first year of the presidency. The fact is terrorist attacks are incredibly hard to stop without totally screwing up your society.

Could this actually be Obama's fault? Could he have given an order not to pay any attention to this guy? It's possible, but there's no evidence for that yet.

As for "defanging" the CIA, I think that's a pretty gross overstatement.

[Bill Glasheen]

Bill, remind me again who you blamed 9/11 on?

Bush's first major terrorist event happened after 7 months in office. Obama's second major terrorist event is happening after 11 months in office. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

No more "blame Bush" except for this 2-foot snowstorm we just suffered, my wife's timing chain tensioner going bad, the bad cold I got last September, the damn Yankees winning The World Series, and other events that make you want to drink purple Kool-Aid.

The fact is terrorist attacks are incredibly hard to stop without totally screwing up your society.

You are a man who chooses his words carefully, and I respect that a lot. But he asked for an incredibly hard job, and he got voted into it. Be careful what you ask for...

The buck should stop at the president's office. I believe a great president once said that.

As for "defanging" the CIA, I think that's a pretty gross overstatement.

Tell that to the face of my friends working there. There have been many editorials written about this, Justin. But it doesn't get a lot of play on "the usual networks." Gee... I wonder why.

Jimmy Carter did the same thing, and then the OPEC oil embargo happened. Then the Iran hostage crisis happened. It stayed a crisis until the very hour that Ronald Reagan got sworn in. That wasn't random chance. And shortly after Reagan got in office, all the Pintos and Vegas ended up where they belonged - in the junkyard. Our society is about adaptation - not denial and liberal guilt. Some presidents get that; some don't.

Being liked doesn't necessarily mean you are respected. Being respected doesn't necessarily mean you are liked. The presidency is not for the meek, the weak-willed, the poll watchers, the inexperienced, the self-indulgent, the narcissistic, and the otherwise distracted. Very few are cut out for the job.

- Bill

[Glenn]

Your blame timeframe is a bit skewed Bill, in both this thread and the economic one. It seems to be however long it takes to blame the Democrats and not the Republicans. We get the message, Bush could do no wrong and Obama can do no good. As far as I'm concerned (when not playing devil's advocate), no politician is any good though, you have yet to convince me that Bush was any better than Obama.

The presidency is not for the meek, the weak-willed, the poll watchers, the inexperienced, the self-indulgent, the narcissistic, and the otherwise distracted. Very few are cut out for the job.

And unfortunately no one cut out for it has run for the office for decades. We really need a political reform that gets rid of this party nonsense that drives politics.

My ultimate question about this latest terror attack is, how could anyone in the U.S. (president, CIA, or anyone else) have prevented it? A Nigerian trained in Yemen buys airline tickets in Ghana and boards a plane in Amsterdam that is headed for Detroit. It's globalization at its best. Stopping it would be like stopping a disease from being transferred around the world via air travel, you can watch for signs to stop some of it, but you can never stop all of it. Someone at the Amsterdam airport clearly dropped the ball, IF they had been informed of this guy being added to the U.S. terrorist watch list, but I think it a bit far-fetched to say it is a U.S. intellegence failure. Has the CIA ever had enough staffing to track down everyone they are warned about within a month of receiving the warning? Are we expecting too much of our intelligence agencies...keeping in mind that they originated in the Cold War and were in that role for a good 5 decades plus, and that the current realities and necessities are far different from what they had to deal with during the Cold War? Should intelligence be completely deconstructed and rebuilt to meet the post-Cold war needs?