Anyone know what the long term down side is for anti inflammation medication?
Laird
medication.
Moderator: Available
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
medication.
Treatment is always a cost/benefit issue.
The various anti-inflammatory drugs have great short-term results. If you've temporarily overdone something, you're probably OK to take some aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, etc. (whichever seems to do the best for you). Remember that acetaminophen is an analgesic (relieves pain), but is not an anti-inflammatory. If it's just pain relief or fever reduction alone you want, grab the Tylenol or equivalent. But if you want to stop inflammation at the same time, it won't help.
The standard over-the-counter (OTC) NSAIDs (the three I mentioned above and others) do quite a bit, and are often prescribed for long-term use. But they have their side effects. Some are good, and some are not so good.
Aspirin in particular changes clotting time. This is good if you've had a heart attack and want to keep from having another. It's also good if you're at risk for one due to age or other risk factor(s). But the downside is that you will get all black and blue after a little bit of karate contact work. Women often already have this problem, which is ONE reason why their risk of heart attacks at any one age is lower (heart disease eventually catches up with them too). Doctors will often prescribe low dose aspirin therapy for folks at risk for heart attacks or repeat heart attacks. Other NSAIDs cause this change in clotting, but not as much. There's another separate effect, which is related to the stickiness of the platelets. Some people now are thinking that ibuprofen may work as well as aspirin for preventing heart attacks because of that particular effect. It's...complicated.
For some reason, most common pain relievers - including Tylenol - eventually raise your blood pressure. The amount it raises it is proportional to the total amount of the stuff you've consumed in your lifetime. Aspirin doesn't cause this, although nobody knows why yet.
There are studies that show an actual POSITIVE benefit for taking NSAIDS like ibuprofen in terms of delaying the onset of Alzheimer's disease. This probably is due to the inflammation thing.
The common NSAIDs - taken long enough - put you at risk for GI bleeds and ulcers. The reason for that is because these are indiscriminate cyclooxygenase (COX) inhibitors. COX I is a precursor to a chemical pathway that develops the lining of the stomach. Oops! Vioox and Celebrex are relatively new designer drugs that ONLY inhibit the COX II enzyme. Theoretically these should be safer and they do indeed result in less GI bleeding. However now there are many acute admissions for these drugs due to a yet-unexplained confounding with the cardiovascular system. It seems that while something like aspirin may reduce the chance of a heart attack, something like the COX II inhibitors will actually INCREASE your risk. Once again, oops!! I recently saw a side-by-side comparison of the reasons for admissions and total admissions due to the use of the COX II drugs vs. OTC NSAIDs, and it looks like a wash. So basically (once again) there is no free lunch. You take the drug that is tailored to your needs and risks.
For some reason, COX II inhibitors seem to slow the healing of fractures.
Tylenol (acetaminophen) and the OTC NSAIDs are known to cause kidney problems when used long terms. Many folks with end stage renal disease (that need to be on dialysis) got there from a lifetime of use and/or abuse of painkillers of various types and combinations.
The liver is also at risk in the use of various painkillers. However I believe acetaminophen is harder on the liver than are all of the various anti-inflammatory drugs.
Doctors often prescribe long-term use of NSAIDs for osteoarthritis, but - as was mentioned - the pain relief is confounded by the apparent complication of faster degradation of the osteoarthritic joint.
Caffeine is a wild card here. It apparently amplifies the analgesic effect of aspirin.
Yes, it is complicated.
Take what you need to, when you need to, and no more. Don't assume that because something is OTC that you don't need to consult a doctor. Various painkillers can also interfere with the action of specific prescription medications. And all drugs are associated with some kind of risk.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited May 31, 2002).]
The various anti-inflammatory drugs have great short-term results. If you've temporarily overdone something, you're probably OK to take some aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, etc. (whichever seems to do the best for you). Remember that acetaminophen is an analgesic (relieves pain), but is not an anti-inflammatory. If it's just pain relief or fever reduction alone you want, grab the Tylenol or equivalent. But if you want to stop inflammation at the same time, it won't help.
The standard over-the-counter (OTC) NSAIDs (the three I mentioned above and others) do quite a bit, and are often prescribed for long-term use. But they have their side effects. Some are good, and some are not so good.
Aspirin in particular changes clotting time. This is good if you've had a heart attack and want to keep from having another. It's also good if you're at risk for one due to age or other risk factor(s). But the downside is that you will get all black and blue after a little bit of karate contact work. Women often already have this problem, which is ONE reason why their risk of heart attacks at any one age is lower (heart disease eventually catches up with them too). Doctors will often prescribe low dose aspirin therapy for folks at risk for heart attacks or repeat heart attacks. Other NSAIDs cause this change in clotting, but not as much. There's another separate effect, which is related to the stickiness of the platelets. Some people now are thinking that ibuprofen may work as well as aspirin for preventing heart attacks because of that particular effect. It's...complicated.
For some reason, most common pain relievers - including Tylenol - eventually raise your blood pressure. The amount it raises it is proportional to the total amount of the stuff you've consumed in your lifetime. Aspirin doesn't cause this, although nobody knows why yet.
There are studies that show an actual POSITIVE benefit for taking NSAIDS like ibuprofen in terms of delaying the onset of Alzheimer's disease. This probably is due to the inflammation thing.
The common NSAIDs - taken long enough - put you at risk for GI bleeds and ulcers. The reason for that is because these are indiscriminate cyclooxygenase (COX) inhibitors. COX I is a precursor to a chemical pathway that develops the lining of the stomach. Oops! Vioox and Celebrex are relatively new designer drugs that ONLY inhibit the COX II enzyme. Theoretically these should be safer and they do indeed result in less GI bleeding. However now there are many acute admissions for these drugs due to a yet-unexplained confounding with the cardiovascular system. It seems that while something like aspirin may reduce the chance of a heart attack, something like the COX II inhibitors will actually INCREASE your risk. Once again, oops!! I recently saw a side-by-side comparison of the reasons for admissions and total admissions due to the use of the COX II drugs vs. OTC NSAIDs, and it looks like a wash. So basically (once again) there is no free lunch. You take the drug that is tailored to your needs and risks.
For some reason, COX II inhibitors seem to slow the healing of fractures.
Tylenol (acetaminophen) and the OTC NSAIDs are known to cause kidney problems when used long terms. Many folks with end stage renal disease (that need to be on dialysis) got there from a lifetime of use and/or abuse of painkillers of various types and combinations.
The liver is also at risk in the use of various painkillers. However I believe acetaminophen is harder on the liver than are all of the various anti-inflammatory drugs.
Doctors often prescribe long-term use of NSAIDs for osteoarthritis, but - as was mentioned - the pain relief is confounded by the apparent complication of faster degradation of the osteoarthritic joint.
Caffeine is a wild card here. It apparently amplifies the analgesic effect of aspirin.
Yes, it is complicated.
Take what you need to, when you need to, and no more. Don't assume that because something is OTC that you don't need to consult a doctor. Various painkillers can also interfere with the action of specific prescription medications. And all drugs are associated with some kind of risk.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited May 31, 2002).]
-
jorvik
medication.
Mr glasheen is best qualified to answer that,but as i suffer with severe arthritis in my hip, and have read up on the subject maybe i can answer some of your question? the anti inflammatories that i take are called n.s.a.d.'s that is, none steroidal anti inflammatory drugs. mr glasheen has already answered me on another thread that they can over time actually weaken the area that they are used for. In my case i get pain, caused by inflammation in my hip, i take an nsaid which relieves the pain but the long term effect can also be greater weakness in an already weak area. Also they can be very bad on the stomach, cause ulcers etc, only this week somebody who i know, had to be rushed into er because they were vomiting blood caused by the nsaid they were taking, now they have had to have that particular drug changed, and are awaiting further tests. hope that helps, you have my sympathy i know what its like.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
medication.
I just wanted to relay a secret, folk remedy for inflammation. Please don't tell anyone - it's my own family remedy.
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ICE
- Bill
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ICE
- Bill
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GSantaniello
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Randolph, Ma. U.S.A.
medication.
Bill,
Having been diagnosed with "degenerative disc desease" that has over the years progressed, i have been dependent upon "percocet" use now for over two years.
"Nothing" else has even come close to pain relieve including "Vicodan". Although the percocet works well for me when i use it, the problem is that it does not last long enough before wanting/needing more.
I am soon to go in for an "empidermal" in hopes to relieve some of the pain and reduce the need for percocet dependancy.
Having for the past few months been using 3 to 4, 7.5 /500 daily, my dotor rescently cut me to "2" daily which does not appear to be enough.
I realize that there does exsist some "psychological" addiction after such long term dependancy but there is a dilehma. In trying to not use or cut down dosage and stretch the time between dosage, i find "increase" in pain level to exceed my normal level.
How am i expected to "reduce" usage when the pain level has increased ?
Secondly, is there an increase in pain sensory due to continued use ?
Understanding a "tolerance" builds up over continued use, if one was to suffer the most of pain from withdrawel, could a reduction of pain be expected to follow ?
If so, how long is the process ? Meditation says to"accept" pain as a condition and not to fight or want to rid of it "zen philosophy". I find this most difficult.
When one feels pain as i do and it effects ones daily life, i have to ask, what does it matter if one uses pain medication and is addicted if it helps one physically deal with it ?
I know, the long term effects. Is it not the "tylenol" in percocet that is harmful to the liver ? (i know that ans) So what is so harmful to the body of the "oxycodone" other than the dependancy of it ?
Hopingthat the "epedermal" will result in easing the pain, i understand that degenerative disc desease is progressive.
So how does one get off the medication when dealing with a progressive desease that appears to have no other solution ?
Look foward to your responce.
Respectfully
------------------
Gary S.
Having been diagnosed with "degenerative disc desease" that has over the years progressed, i have been dependent upon "percocet" use now for over two years.
"Nothing" else has even come close to pain relieve including "Vicodan". Although the percocet works well for me when i use it, the problem is that it does not last long enough before wanting/needing more.
I am soon to go in for an "empidermal" in hopes to relieve some of the pain and reduce the need for percocet dependancy.
Having for the past few months been using 3 to 4, 7.5 /500 daily, my dotor rescently cut me to "2" daily which does not appear to be enough.
I realize that there does exsist some "psychological" addiction after such long term dependancy but there is a dilehma. In trying to not use or cut down dosage and stretch the time between dosage, i find "increase" in pain level to exceed my normal level.
How am i expected to "reduce" usage when the pain level has increased ?
Secondly, is there an increase in pain sensory due to continued use ?
Understanding a "tolerance" builds up over continued use, if one was to suffer the most of pain from withdrawel, could a reduction of pain be expected to follow ?
If so, how long is the process ? Meditation says to"accept" pain as a condition and not to fight or want to rid of it "zen philosophy". I find this most difficult.
When one feels pain as i do and it effects ones daily life, i have to ask, what does it matter if one uses pain medication and is addicted if it helps one physically deal with it ?
I know, the long term effects. Is it not the "tylenol" in percocet that is harmful to the liver ? (i know that ans) So what is so harmful to the body of the "oxycodone" other than the dependancy of it ?
Hopingthat the "epedermal" will result in easing the pain, i understand that degenerative disc desease is progressive.
So how does one get off the medication when dealing with a progressive desease that appears to have no other solution ?
Look foward to your responce.
Respectfully
------------------
Gary S.
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Arnie Elkins
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA, USA
medication.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:
Treatment is always a cost/benefit issue.
The common NSAIDs - taken long enough - put you at risk for GI bleeds and ulcers. The reason for that is because these are indiscriminate cyclooxygenase (COX) inhibitors. COX I is a precursor to a chemical pathway that develops the lining of the stomach. Oops! Vioox and Celebrex are relatively new designer drugs that ONLY inhibit the COX II enzyme. Theoretically these should be safer and they do indeed result in less GI bleeding. However now there are many acute admissions for these drugs due to a yet-unexplained confounding with the cardiovascular system. It seems that while something like aspirin may reduce the chance of a heart attack, something like the COX II inhibitors will actually INCREASE your risk. Once again, oops!! I recently saw a side-by-side comparison of the reasons for admissions and total admissions due to the use of the COX II drugs vs. OTC NSAIDs, and it looks like a wash. So basically (once again) there is no free lunch. You take the drug that is tailored to your needs and risks.
For some reason, COX II inhibitors seem to slow the healing of fractures.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you have any information on the 'natural', or herbal, COX II inhibitors, and how they compare in terms of side effects with the pharmaceutical versions?
Arnie
Treatment is always a cost/benefit issue.
The common NSAIDs - taken long enough - put you at risk for GI bleeds and ulcers. The reason for that is because these are indiscriminate cyclooxygenase (COX) inhibitors. COX I is a precursor to a chemical pathway that develops the lining of the stomach. Oops! Vioox and Celebrex are relatively new designer drugs that ONLY inhibit the COX II enzyme. Theoretically these should be safer and they do indeed result in less GI bleeding. However now there are many acute admissions for these drugs due to a yet-unexplained confounding with the cardiovascular system. It seems that while something like aspirin may reduce the chance of a heart attack, something like the COX II inhibitors will actually INCREASE your risk. Once again, oops!! I recently saw a side-by-side comparison of the reasons for admissions and total admissions due to the use of the COX II drugs vs. OTC NSAIDs, and it looks like a wash. So basically (once again) there is no free lunch. You take the drug that is tailored to your needs and risks.
For some reason, COX II inhibitors seem to slow the healing of fractures.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you have any information on the 'natural', or herbal, COX II inhibitors, and how they compare in terms of side effects with the pharmaceutical versions?
Arnie
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
medication.
Gary
Ouch! Ow! Yeoww!!
Percocet, as you alluded to, is a combination of oxycondone and acetaminophen. Various tablets have various levels of the two active ingredients. Oxycondone is semisynthetic pure opioid agonist. It's basically codeine. Acetaminophen (Tylenol is the name brand) is strictly an analgesic, and has no anti-inflammatory properties.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
The liver issue is most definitely the acetaminophen half of the medication. Opioids on the other hand will depress respiration, cardiac function, mental function, and create gastrointestinal issues (nausea, etc.).
There are two separate issues here: 1) the degenerative disc disease, and 2) the pain. There are recent advances in microsurgery for folks in your condition, but there are no miracles. You may have a long row to hoe, but don't give up. And when it comes to allowing yourself to be a victim of the surgeon, I highly recommend the conservative approach whenever possible. As for the pain, you should know that there has been much in the way of advancements in this field. You should seek out a pain specialist. These folks can help someone like you. It is part science, and part art these days, and it takes a specialist to help someone in your condition.
Good luck!
- Bill
Ouch! Ow! Yeoww!!
Percocet, as you alluded to, is a combination of oxycondone and acetaminophen. Various tablets have various levels of the two active ingredients. Oxycondone is semisynthetic pure opioid agonist. It's basically codeine. Acetaminophen (Tylenol is the name brand) is strictly an analgesic, and has no anti-inflammatory properties.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Needless to say, any opioid-containing medication brings baggage. You should be aware that this can affect your ability to drive, etc.Oxycondone can produce drug dependence of the morphine type and, therefore, has the potential for being abused. Psychic dependence, physical dependence and tolerance may develop upon repeated administration of PERCOCET, and it should be prescribed and administered with the same degree of caution appropriate to the use of other oral opioid-containing medication.
The liver issue is most definitely the acetaminophen half of the medication. Opioids on the other hand will depress respiration, cardiac function, mental function, and create gastrointestinal issues (nausea, etc.).
There are two separate issues here: 1) the degenerative disc disease, and 2) the pain. There are recent advances in microsurgery for folks in your condition, but there are no miracles. You may have a long row to hoe, but don't give up. And when it comes to allowing yourself to be a victim of the surgeon, I highly recommend the conservative approach whenever possible. As for the pain, you should know that there has been much in the way of advancements in this field. You should seek out a pain specialist. These folks can help someone like you. It is part science, and part art these days, and it takes a specialist to help someone in your condition.
Good luck!
- Bill
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
medication.
Arnie
I am aware of the use of bosweilla for conditions like osteoarthritis. The active ingredient is bosweillic acids and they come from the plant bosweilla serata. It has been used a lot in other countries (India), and allegedly has COX II properties. I believe it's been used in countries like India for quite some time.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Kar A, Menon MK. Analgesic effect of the gum resin of Boswellia serata Roxb. Life Sci 1969 Oct 1;8(19):1023-8.
Menon MK, Kar A. Analgesic and psychopharmacological effects of the gum resin of Boswellia serrata. Planta Med. 1971 Apr;19(4):333-41.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
These references were so old that I could not easily find them, nor could I get their abstracts online.
Bromelain (an extract from pineapple) also is alleged to have such properties. These references are worth a look.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BioDrugs 2001;15(12):779-8
Therapy with proteolytic enzymes in rheumatic disorders.
Leipner J, Iten F, Saller R.
Department of Natural Medicine, University Hospital, Zurich, Switzerland.
Plant extracts with a high content of proteolytic enzymes have been used in traditional medicine for a long time. Besides herbal proteinases, 'modern' enzyme therapy includes pancreatic enzymes. The therapeutic use of proteolytic enzymes is empirically based, but is also supported by scientific studies. This review provides an overview of preclinical and clinical trials of systemic enzyme therapy in rheumatic disorders. Studies of the use of proteolytic enzymes in rheumatic disorders have mostly been carried out on enzyme preparations consisting of combinations of bromelain, papain, trypsin and chymotrypsin. The precise mechanism of action of systemic enzyme therapy remains unresolved. The ratio of proteinases to antiproteinases, which is affected by rheumatic diseases, appears to be influenced by the oral administration of proteolytic enzymes, probably via induction of the synthesis of antiproteinases or a signal transduction of the proteinase-antiproteinase complex via specific receptors. Furthermore, there are numerous alterations of cytokine composition during therapy with orally administered enzymes resulting from immunomodulatory effects, which might be an indication of the efficacy of enzyme therapy. The results of various studies (placebo-controlled and comparisons with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) in patients with rheumatic diseases suggest that oral therapy with proteolytic enzymes produces certain analgesic and anti-inflammatory effects. However, the results are often inconsistent. Nevertheless, in the light of preclinical and experimental data as well as therapeutic experience, the application of enzyme therapy seems plausible in carefully chosen patients with rheumatic disorders.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>J Assoc Physicians India 2001 Jun;49:617-21
Efficacy and tolerability of oral enzyme therapy as compared to diclofenac in active osteoarthrosis of knee joint: an open randomized controlled clinical trial.
Tilwe GH, Beria S, Turakhia NH, Daftary GV, Schiess W.
Department of Medicine, GS Medical College and KEM Hospital, Mumbai.
OBJECTIVE: To compare the efficacy and tolerability of an oral enzyme preparation (Phlogenzym) with that of an NSAID (diclofenac) in the treatment of active osteoarthrosis. METHODS: Prospective, randomized, controlled, single-blind study of seven weeks duration at a tertiary care centre wherein 50 patients aged 40-75 years, with activated osteoarthrosis of knee joint were randomized to receive phlogenzym tablets (2-3 tablets, bid) or diclofenac sodium 50 mg bid for three weeks. RESULTS: At the end of therapy (three weeks) and at follow-up visit at seven weeks there was reduction in pain and joint tenderness and swelling in both groups, and slight improvement in the range of movement in the study group. The reduction in joint tenderness was greater (p < 0.05) in the study group receiving phlogenzym. CONCLUSION: Phlogenzym is as efficacious and well tolerated as diclofenac sodium in the management of active osteoarthrosis over three weeks of treatment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My secondary references tell me that these are the only ones worth looking at.
In general one should be cautious when using herbs. Always use standardized extracts, so you know you are getting exactly the amount of active ingredient that you want. And remember that the U.S. is one of the few countries in the world where safety AND efficiacy are required before F.D.A. approval. Just because something has been used overseas for some time doesn't mean it works. It just means that it hasn't been killing people.
The big problem with the U.S. and medication is the profit motive. If a big drug company can't make a profit on it, they won't push it.
- Bill
I am aware of the use of bosweilla for conditions like osteoarthritis. The active ingredient is bosweillic acids and they come from the plant bosweilla serata. It has been used a lot in other countries (India), and allegedly has COX II properties. I believe it's been used in countries like India for quite some time.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Kar A, Menon MK. Analgesic effect of the gum resin of Boswellia serata Roxb. Life Sci 1969 Oct 1;8(19):1023-8.
Menon MK, Kar A. Analgesic and psychopharmacological effects of the gum resin of Boswellia serrata. Planta Med. 1971 Apr;19(4):333-41.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
These references were so old that I could not easily find them, nor could I get their abstracts online.
Bromelain (an extract from pineapple) also is alleged to have such properties. These references are worth a look.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BioDrugs 2001;15(12):779-8
Therapy with proteolytic enzymes in rheumatic disorders.
Leipner J, Iten F, Saller R.
Department of Natural Medicine, University Hospital, Zurich, Switzerland.
Plant extracts with a high content of proteolytic enzymes have been used in traditional medicine for a long time. Besides herbal proteinases, 'modern' enzyme therapy includes pancreatic enzymes. The therapeutic use of proteolytic enzymes is empirically based, but is also supported by scientific studies. This review provides an overview of preclinical and clinical trials of systemic enzyme therapy in rheumatic disorders. Studies of the use of proteolytic enzymes in rheumatic disorders have mostly been carried out on enzyme preparations consisting of combinations of bromelain, papain, trypsin and chymotrypsin. The precise mechanism of action of systemic enzyme therapy remains unresolved. The ratio of proteinases to antiproteinases, which is affected by rheumatic diseases, appears to be influenced by the oral administration of proteolytic enzymes, probably via induction of the synthesis of antiproteinases or a signal transduction of the proteinase-antiproteinase complex via specific receptors. Furthermore, there are numerous alterations of cytokine composition during therapy with orally administered enzymes resulting from immunomodulatory effects, which might be an indication of the efficacy of enzyme therapy. The results of various studies (placebo-controlled and comparisons with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) in patients with rheumatic diseases suggest that oral therapy with proteolytic enzymes produces certain analgesic and anti-inflammatory effects. However, the results are often inconsistent. Nevertheless, in the light of preclinical and experimental data as well as therapeutic experience, the application of enzyme therapy seems plausible in carefully chosen patients with rheumatic disorders.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>J Assoc Physicians India 2001 Jun;49:617-21
Efficacy and tolerability of oral enzyme therapy as compared to diclofenac in active osteoarthrosis of knee joint: an open randomized controlled clinical trial.
Tilwe GH, Beria S, Turakhia NH, Daftary GV, Schiess W.
Department of Medicine, GS Medical College and KEM Hospital, Mumbai.
OBJECTIVE: To compare the efficacy and tolerability of an oral enzyme preparation (Phlogenzym) with that of an NSAID (diclofenac) in the treatment of active osteoarthrosis. METHODS: Prospective, randomized, controlled, single-blind study of seven weeks duration at a tertiary care centre wherein 50 patients aged 40-75 years, with activated osteoarthrosis of knee joint were randomized to receive phlogenzym tablets (2-3 tablets, bid) or diclofenac sodium 50 mg bid for three weeks. RESULTS: At the end of therapy (three weeks) and at follow-up visit at seven weeks there was reduction in pain and joint tenderness and swelling in both groups, and slight improvement in the range of movement in the study group. The reduction in joint tenderness was greater (p < 0.05) in the study group receiving phlogenzym. CONCLUSION: Phlogenzym is as efficacious and well tolerated as diclofenac sodium in the management of active osteoarthrosis over three weeks of treatment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My secondary references tell me that these are the only ones worth looking at.
In general one should be cautious when using herbs. Always use standardized extracts, so you know you are getting exactly the amount of active ingredient that you want. And remember that the U.S. is one of the few countries in the world where safety AND efficiacy are required before F.D.A. approval. Just because something has been used overseas for some time doesn't mean it works. It just means that it hasn't been killing people.
The big problem with the U.S. and medication is the profit motive. If a big drug company can't make a profit on it, they won't push it.
- Bill
-
Guest
medication.
Good information here!
I've been using vioxx. Worked well at first good to get more than two or three hours sleep! Got really run down from lack of sleep, business stress etc. got pneumonia. It never ends, I'm rested now
The medication seems to no longer work stiffness and pains are now returning. I hate taking medication so I'm feeding the rest to the big white telephone.
I'm going with good old-fashioned ice. Heat before exercise ice after and at bed. Nothing seems as effective, and the side effects are zip.
Thanks all for the advice and education!
Laird
I've been using vioxx. Worked well at first good to get more than two or three hours sleep! Got really run down from lack of sleep, business stress etc. got pneumonia. It never ends, I'm rested now
The medication seems to no longer work stiffness and pains are now returning. I hate taking medication so I'm feeding the rest to the big white telephone.
I'm going with good old-fashioned ice. Heat before exercise ice after and at bed. Nothing seems as effective, and the side effects are zip.
Thanks all for the advice and education!
Laird
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
medication.
Laird
Some food for thought.
Drug Sales Based on 'Seriously Biased' Data
Are selective COX 2 inhibitors superior to traditional non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs?
Gary
Your post continues to haunt me.
I remain on my position about seeing a pain specialist. I hope there are such specialists in your area. You might be surprised at how much they tend to back off of the narcotics, except in the case of folks with terminal cancer. In lieu of a pain specialist, you might seek out specialties like osteopathy.
As for the separate issue of DJD, never give up on what you can do. This - unfortunately - is one of the inevitable consequences of aging. But there are ways to age gracefully. Read up on the use of glucosamine/chondroitin, beneficial fatty acids (omega 3 and omega 6; a perfect combination is flax oil, borage oil, and fish oil), and water - LOTS of it. It won't work miracles, but it just might keep things from getting worse - or maybe better.
Oh, and don't stop moving. It flushes those joint spaces!
- Bill
Some food for thought.
Drug Sales Based on 'Seriously Biased' Data
Are selective COX 2 inhibitors superior to traditional non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs?
Gary
Your post continues to haunt me.
I remain on my position about seeing a pain specialist. I hope there are such specialists in your area. You might be surprised at how much they tend to back off of the narcotics, except in the case of folks with terminal cancer. In lieu of a pain specialist, you might seek out specialties like osteopathy.
As for the separate issue of DJD, never give up on what you can do. This - unfortunately - is one of the inevitable consequences of aging. But there are ways to age gracefully. Read up on the use of glucosamine/chondroitin, beneficial fatty acids (omega 3 and omega 6; a perfect combination is flax oil, borage oil, and fish oil), and water - LOTS of it. It won't work miracles, but it just might keep things from getting worse - or maybe better.
Oh, and don't stop moving.
It flushes those joint spaces!- Bill
-
Guest
medication.
Bill thanks for the links.
My experience with vioxx,worked briefly because I must have wanted it too.
So does ibuprofen.
I think the big thing is just listen to the old body. Warm up and ice down and don't over do it.
And most important I must remember I'm not twenty anymore, that means I must be patient as my injuries mend. I'm no longer a kid , I'm nolonger bullet proof .
And reality just *****
Laird
My experience with vioxx,worked briefly because I must have wanted it too.
So does ibuprofen.
I think the big thing is just listen to the old body. Warm up and ice down and don't over do it.
And most important I must remember I'm not twenty anymore, that means I must be patient as my injuries mend. I'm no longer a kid , I'm nolonger bullet proof .
And reality just *****
Laird
-
GSantaniello
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Randolph, Ma. U.S.A.
medication.
Bill,
Thank you for your responce and advice. I expect to hear from the hospital within the week to set up an appoitment for the "Epedermal".
My other had a series of three for her neck (base) area and the last injection helped drastically. Maybe i'LL have the same luck.Although i am nervous about a needle in the spinal area !
I had tried several other over the counter and prescription drugs that are not narcotic. They had no effect. After the "epedermal" i will follow up on seeing a pain specialist as you suggest.
Surely losing a few pounds and working the muscle groups around the lower back and the abdominal area would help.
I have tightened up a lot as i cut way back on my karate paractce and stretching routines. Being on a concrete floor walking all day at work is not helping the situation.
Basically, there is a combination of factors involved. Maybe i'll have some good news when i see you at camp. Thanks again for you input.
Respectfully,
------------------
Gary S.
Thank you for your responce and advice. I expect to hear from the hospital within the week to set up an appoitment for the "Epedermal".
My other had a series of three for her neck (base) area and the last injection helped drastically. Maybe i'LL have the same luck.Although i am nervous about a needle in the spinal area !
I had tried several other over the counter and prescription drugs that are not narcotic. They had no effect. After the "epedermal" i will follow up on seeing a pain specialist as you suggest.
Surely losing a few pounds and working the muscle groups around the lower back and the abdominal area would help.
I have tightened up a lot as i cut way back on my karate paractce and stretching routines. Being on a concrete floor walking all day at work is not helping the situation.
Basically, there is a combination of factors involved. Maybe i'll have some good news when i see you at camp. Thanks again for you input.
Respectfully,
------------------
Gary S.
