why do I see more style bashing?

Rick Wilson · Post by **Rick Wilson** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:29 pm

Andrew:

“This may be a bit off subject, but here's a thought I've been bouncing around for awhile. Hypothetically, if he shows you a turnover or throw that you aren't familiar with and you later find the same turnover or throw in your kata, did you really get the technique from your Uechi kata or did you get it from Muay Thai?”

Andrew this is an excellent comment and where you take it (are Kata a good teaching tool) it is either right or wrong depending on what the practitioner does with what they learned.

If you see a move in Aikido and go “WOW that is right here in X Kata” and then stop and do nothing further then the Kata taught you nothing. Whatever you were watching on Aikido taught you.

However, if you see a move in Aikido and go “WOW that is right here in X Kata” and then you look closer at other parts of X Kata and Y Kata etc and you see all kinds of things you had never seen before then Kata (using the Aikido you were watching as a catalyst) did teach you something.

AND if you use the fact that there was something deeper in the Kata than you had originally thought to look closer and see new things unrelated to the Aikido you watched then Kata taught you something.

It is very similar to people doing a preset Bunkai and claiming this is how “they” interpret the application of a Kata. NO it is how someone else interprets the Kata. (Disclaimer: this does not invalidate the interpretation the distinction being made is “whose” interpretation it is.)

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:07 pm

jorvik wrote:
I must say that this is a very strange discussion one of the things that puts me off doing Uechi is all this nonsence that I'm hearing that Uechi is everything .It's judo Aikido and Thai boxing ........and that is why it took Kanei three years to learn Sanchin, because he had to learn all the gun and knife applications and the anti-terrorist techniques
come on let's have a little bit of intelligence here

You took the words right out of my mouth, Ray.

It's pretty amazing what you can do with a strawman argument.

Go practice your Uechi, Ray. Nobody's stopping you. You appear to have it all figured out after all.

- Bill

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:14 pm

Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.

- Arthur Schopenhauer

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:17 pm

One ship sails East,
And another West,
By the self-same winds that blow,
Tis the set of the sails
And not the gales,
That tells the way we go.

- Ella Wheeler Wilcox

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:24 pm

What we see depends mainly on what we look for.

- John Lubbock

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:16 pm

Bill
My Uechi is called Wing-Chun

,,,,,,sadly it doesn't contain Guerrilla warfare

...and is pretty specific in what it does contain

all noble things are as rare as they are difficult ( spinoza)

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:34 pm

jorvik wrote:
sadly it doesn't contain Guerrilla warfare

There's always some bloke out there pushing the envelope, Ray, ...

Cheung's Defensive Tactics

... and always a revolutionary in the making who one day will call a new place in a style "his own."

Wing Chun Sifus

And I believe there's a picture or two of that fellow above with some Uechi folks (Malone Sensei), "comparing notes."

- Bill

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:21 pm

Bill
With WC there is good ,bad and indifferent

...and I am always prepared to say which is which

cheung is bad as is leung ting ( but bordering on indifferent).always in my humble opinion

.but I don't see the same honesty in Uechi ......I am not a "STYLIST".a Gadfly perhaps

.I just do stuff that interests me, I kind of like it clearly defined, I like folks to make a "KATA" with a predetermined idea of what the component parts are, I don't want to go to a Dojo and guess what they might be or worse fit all and sundary into a kata and then tell me that it has all and everything.that is just plain dumb

Willy · Post by **Willy** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:51 pm

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:15 pm

Some things are subtle; some things aren't. Some things are just plain funny. But don't ask me what I'm talking about.

I know no-thing!

- Schultz on Hogan's Heroes

- Bill

Rick Wilson · Post by **Rick Wilson** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:39 pm

It never ceases to amaze me why those who express such open distaste of Uechi, the Uechi world and how we poor folks do Uechi seem to waste so much of their time talking at us?

Oh well I guess I will just go off and train my anti-terrorism Uechi.

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:53 am

Unfortuanatly, some BAD wing chun people also have some funny ideas.

Wing Chun vs Plane Hijackers
http://www.wt-schulen-sbr-sls.de/Neu...MFLUGZEUG.mpeg
Or this:

http://www.wt-schulen-sbr-sls.de/Neue_D ... GZEUG.mpeg

EDIT: If it doesnt work go to the multimedia page here:

http://www.wt-schulen-sbr-sls.de/module ... age&pid=15

Or this.

Is there anything else to be said? I mean, the first defense consists of chan punching a man armed with a knife, starting at very close quarters, without bothering to control his knife hand.

okay this is, lets face it, a little unrealistic.

And i suspect some uechi-ryu anti-terrorism would look like that if the fundamentals are not stressed, and if the wrong person tried to 'adapt' it.

Or maybe since it's a demo, they wanted it to look pretty and sexy so they did not worry about control of the gun or knife.

\

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:28 am

As for "Muay thai vs uechi-ryu"

I am a uechi-ryu practitioner..........

But in my honest opinion, if you take a top tier Muay thai man and put him against a top tier uechi-ryu guy, the uechi guy would MOST LIKELY lose.

Not that the art is inferior to muay thai, it's just that muay thai has a deeper pool of talent, everyone watchs muay thai in thailand(well they did, i hear it's losing popularity there) it's very very popular, and has many more FULL CONTACT practioners then there are karate fighters in japan(that fight full contact)

I personally like uechi-ryu better, because of certain approches it has in training, Rick's dojo atleast, has a very RBSD perspective to it, while having MANY traditional elements such as internal body mechanics as well as breathing and conditioning, ki-kung and kata, and lots of focus on body controls and other goodies.

So yes, i have prefference of uechi-ryu. If i wanted to learn muay thai i could have gone to one of many thai gyms in edmonton, we have alot of good thai gyms here.
But i find i like uechi-ryu more, atleast in THIS school.

I believe that if uechi-ryu people pushed themselves as hard as the thai's, we would also have our art in the top ranks of k1 and PRIDE. The same goes for any other style, like wing chun or TKD or choi li fut.

But the WAY they thai's train is what takes them far, not the art.

And Jim had a very good poing, muay thai and uechi are VERY different.

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Wed May 31, 2006 6:10 am

I think Muay Thai and Uechi have a lot in common as far as defensive positioning/posturing

but are of course very different .

as for the rest of the conversation ... well no yawning smiley . same shite different day .

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:03 pm

Amazing how a difference of opinion has become tantamount to betrayal, distaste and/or trolling and warrant insults in return...

"Why would anyone who doesn't agree with all our views want to discuss things with us?"

Huh?