why do I see more style bashing?

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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Lampley is also a major player in the old-school boxing crowd, the majority of which feels very threatened by MMA as it continues to chip away at boxing's audience.
When he makes money on bar fights, then he'll be singing the praise of those as well.

There's really no "conversion" per se here. His job is to promote that which brings the bacon home. It's marketing.

- Bill
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a.f.
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Post by a.f. »

Bill,

I've been thinking about some of the comments you made earlier. I've been looking through the kata, and every time I find not only more interpretations, but also more possible axes of movement that I didn't even notice. These things ALWAYS keep you thinking.

Not everything's in Uechi, but there's a hell of a lot there. :D
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

a.f.

When you start teaching as well as practicing, you'll find more and more of it.

Sanchin is a bit of a teacher's dream. When you do and teach long enough, you begin to see errors in movement. Having a reference book that teacher and student can refer back to is an extremely useful tool. Ask my students. When they have problems with their advanced kata, I refer them to what I expect of them in Sanchin. When they aren't doing things as I want them to either in prearranged or freeform partner work, often I can reduce the issue or issues to elements of movement, attitude, or mindset in Sanchin.

These days I do less telling and more quizzing. I point the problem out, and then ask them where the information is that tells them how to do things as I expect. Eventually I can get them to the correct part of the form.

The biggest problem with most outsiders or novices of Sanchin is that they don't see how the form can evolve both in understanding and execution. They see what appears on the surface to be an elegantly simple routine. They don't see the pieces and parts, and how they can be used out of the context of the form. They don't understand the difference between a white belt, a black belt, and an advanced practitioner's Sanchin. And sometimes when viewing it, they won't see the difference. So it's easy to see how things can be missed.

Sanchin isn't the only tool I use. These days when working on people in partner work I often find myself going back to music training and timing. I can often pick the musicians out from the nonmusicians when teaching certain concepts related to creating and exploiting openings in an opponent. It can take an order of magnitude longer to teach someone certain concepts when they don't get rhythm and timing. I'm a big fan of music lessons for all athletes and martial artists.

- Bill
a.f.
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Post by a.f. »

Bill,

Good advice. I have started to assist in teaching low ranked students, and even just going over the most uncomplicated stuff I see worlds more than I ever did. More possibilities...always more possibilities! :)

Another thing I like about it: helping teach shows me how much I don't know even more than how much I do. It shows me how utterly stupid the philosophy of "this is the only way to do it, don't try to expand on it." Sometimes when I make a correction my ego gets the better of me, and I say "wrong wrong wrong do it this way." When I step back and realize I'm being a knucklehead is when I learn stuff.

Always learning. :)
a.f.
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Post by a.f. »

On a different note:

Jake, I'm very curious about muay thai. You talked earlier about Muay thai punches. I've done some research, and the way they throw punches seems familiar, e.g. drive off the rear leg, etc. Could you please elaborate a little on how they differ from uechi punches? I know you talked about it, but I'd think we should discuss it a little further.

Do you ever encounter some of the guys like the person who wrote that article, who are obsessed with muay thai superiority? how do you deal with them? Sometimes I encounter them in karate and I do my best to change the subject.. :)
AAAhmed46
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

Well the same shots are also often taken at full contact karate in comparison to touch contact fighters.

Some talk of how thier technique is more refined and more technical, because it looks prettier then full contact.


Never heard this on the internet though, just young pimple faced 12 year olds who think touch contact is full contact but dont realize it.:lol:
Rick Wilson

Post by Rick Wilson »

I liked how you put this Bill:

"The biggest problem with most outsiders or novices of Sanchin is that they don't see how the form can evolve both in understanding and execution. They see what appears on the surface to be an elegantly simple routine. They don't see the pieces and parts, and how they can be used out of the context of the form. They don't understand the difference between a white belt, a black belt, and an advanced practitioner's Sanchin. And sometimes when viewing it, they won't see the difference. So it's easy to see how things can be missed."

:D
AAAhmed46
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

Rick Wilson wrote:I liked how you put this Bill:

"The biggest problem with most outsiders or novices of Sanchin is that they don't see how the form can evolve both in understanding and execution. They see what appears on the surface to be an elegantly simple routine. They don't see the pieces and parts, and how they can be used out of the context of the form. They don't understand the difference between a white belt, a black belt, and an advanced practitioner's Sanchin. And sometimes when viewing it, they won't see the difference. So it's easy to see how things can be missed."

:D
When i first learned sanchin, i thought it's a basic kata used as a building block to the 'real stuff'

Boy was i wrong
a.f.
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Post by a.f. »

Hm. I've been thinking. While no art is worse than any other per se, none is perfect for all situations. Boxing, for example, has some monstrous power puches. But, simply because takedowns are a non-issue in boxing, it seems IMHO that some of the punches that load the front foot would be open to takedowns. Not bad, just a different situation. The more an art is "restricted" the more it will develop big strengths in one area and weaknesses in the other. I'm not bashing boxing, I'm just saying it's different from uechi.

Perhaps Jake can tell us more about Thai punches?
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Dana Sheets
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Post by Dana Sheets »

hmmm...of course in boxing you not really allow to dig into the other guy's leg/balance while you jab off the front foot either. A jab can just be a jab, but can also be the second technique after a body shift through their center...

I'm facinated with two level stuff right now. Methinks it the next level in training to understand how to combine the menu of upper body stuff with the menu of lower body stuff.
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

a.f.

Your observation about boxing is quite astute.

Boxing is a semi-cooperative venue. There are rules and there is equipment which protects the vulnerable hands. The conditions dictate what works best.

I wouldn't consider boxers to have "weaknesses." They optimize their fighting sport for the venue in which it is played. If a boxer has a little bit of training in another venue, (s)he often can adapt somewhat to that new venue. Then the perceived weaknesses disappear.

Or not. Then and only then are there weaknesses.

- Bill
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

I'm facinated with two level stuff right now. Methinks it the next level in training to understand how to combine the menu of upper body stuff with the menu of lower body stuff.
Dana , a realisation of this made huge changes , and I have a simple rule for it .

splitting the positions inside outside and neutral between the high and low creates spine manipulation . in turn creating control .

technique is irrelevant as it also creates three points of contact . and where back to your beloved Judo .

just some thoughts .
AAAhmed46
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

You know, speaking of judo....

Most BJJ people hold a high respect for judo, atleast those that know what thier doing/talking about.

Yes there are a very few(often on forums they get FLAMED like hell) that take fun at bashing judo in comparison to BJJ.


Isnt BJJ judo? DIdnt the guy who taught the gracies come from kodokan before it had the name judo and was still a renegade jujutsu?
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

No there not the same

they may have common roots and techniques (fuzen ryu?) but modern Judo and modern BJJ while sharing commonalitys are not the same art .

I`d expect BJJ to dominate the ground and judo stand up throwing on a stereotype basis .

amd heck I taught some throws at a bjj club I went too , I wouldnt suspect that would happen at a judo club .

you might as well call Kyokushin Shotokan .

They are both great arts though IMHO
AAAhmed46
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

Judo has ground work too, just dont focus on it.

Bjj has throws as well(as you noticed) just dont focus on it.

from what i have READ both apprently they look and ''feel'' different but have the same techniques for the ground and throwing, but the focuss changes them dramatically making them different.





Well thats what i learned from the BUllshido forums, but people tend to have biases there, though if it were clear it would it would be anti-judo bias, but im surprised that they actually said that BJJ and Judo are essentially the same art with different focus that makes it appear different.


But i know you as a person and know how credible you are, those guys on BULLSHIDO are just internet people who i dont know, so ill take your word for it, and would like to discuss it more with you.
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